VBB 322 Women Who Dominate And Their Message!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

It's been argued, does life imitate art, or does art imitate life? When it comes to the emergence of women in art, we hope that life will imitate art. I worked for over 20 years in the entertainment field, most of that in the music industry with a major record label. When I started my career, the industry could not have been more male-dominated, misogynistic, and very proud of its macho image. It was rock and roll. It was hard. It was man.

Christopher [00:01:09]:

Luckily for me, I arrived at a time also of pioneering women in popular music. Shout out to Tori Amos, Alanis Morissette, Jewel, Biff Naked, and many, many more. It was very clear that they challenged the status quo and changed the tone of the music industry overall. They were not the traditional showgirls with sweet voices marching to the beat of male writers and producers. They were artists who were raw, real, and relentlessly honest about their lives and experiences as women and their art. They put that into their art. Working with these women really rubbed off on me in a way that opened my spirit to creating and hosting Virgin Beauty Bitch with Heather. But with women now dominating music like they are, like never before, I can only imagine the impact that female art is having on women's lives, and only a woman can really answer that. So over to you, Heather.

Heather [00:01:57]:

Wow. Thank you, Christopher. And, you know, hearing about Christopher's life in music and these powerhouse women that have, you know, shaped the game and really did carve the way for so many other women. You know, I  definitely grew up with Biff Naked with Jewel and Alanis Morissette, as speaking to some of the teenage angst I was feeling and anger with the world around me. And then also, some ballads that really hit some of the more sentimental notes of what life was like as we were redefining womanhood and femininity back then. So, you know, Christopher and I wanted to look into one of the biggest nights in music, which is the Grammy Awards.

Heather [00:02:47]:

You know, it's gone through a couple of different types of seasons, shall we say? I would say about three years ago, there was a lot of anger towards the Grammys as being racist, not fair to women, and some of their achievements. And then there were several major artists who vowed not to come back to the Grammys because it had been so clearly skewed around racial lines. Or gender lines. Of course, Beyonce is a superstar. When you think of superstars and singers, artists, and songwriters that have made history, I mean, she's right there at the top of the list. So, you know, I'm not trying to rehash something that people have already seen and revered her for because she's clearly in a lane all her own on so many different levels. But I think what was so brilliant about this past Grammys is that she finally won the Album of the Year after being locked out, you know, arguably for so many years in the past.

Heather [00:03:54]:

Not only did she make Album of the Year, and that's an amazing feat in and of itself, but she made it with a country album, Cowboy Carter, in a genre that has, up until this day, been able to dictate what kind of people should play in that arena. And when I say that, I mean that they've made it so that white people only be able to play in this country arena. And we saw that with the country awards she was completely robbed of her just deserves and everything she's made and created in that beautiful, beautiful album. So to see her not only in her own light for what it means for her to break genre categories, if, you know, to bust those open, but also all the honoring that she did along the way for black women who have shaped country music from its origins and bring their story to life, bring their voices into her performance at the halftime show at Christmas. And I really think that what I love that I'm seeing with these stars that are women is they're not only using their platform for their own gain, but they're really trying to use their platform as leverage for other female vocalists or other female artists, or as a platform to be pretty darn political in a way that we haven't seen, I think, ever.

Heather [00:05:33]:

I think about the recent election in the US, and more women artists and artists across the board came out in support of one candidate or another. But just to see where women or artists have been muzzled in the past to say, oh, you don't want to tread on that political sphere. You might lose some of your audience. People might not go to your music because they're from a different political stripe. So, to see this emergence of women not backing down from that in these big platforms is really something.

Heather [00:06:09]:

There are a couple of notes for me. One of the biggest ones is Chappelle Roan. I mean, people say that she's an overnight success, but when you look at her background, it's. It's been, you know, over a decade of tremendous hard work. And she has, you know, it. It certainly hasn't been an overnight success. It's been an overnight wonder to see her rise into superstardom, but really to see her persevere.

Heather [00:06:36]:

And it seems like anytime she can or anytime she has a platform, she is very vocal, of course, about LGBTQA rights as a part of that community herself, very strong on transgender rights, and again, uses her platforms in order to discuss what's happening and what we're fighting for in those spheres. But I found what she said at the Grammys truly interesting because she said it's about time. She talked about workers' rights and workers' rights within the industry. She said that artists, once they sign on with a record label, emerging artists were what she was referring to at the time, that they don't have access to health care coverage. A lot of them don't have access to a living wage. She said that if she were ever to be on the Grammy stage, that it would be one of the first things that she wanted to bring to light is that these record labels have such a hold on the people that they represent.

Heather [00:07:37]:

Because these folks are so interested and their whole life has been put towards making it in the industry, they often are in a vulnerable situation to get misused, or the power dynamic does not work in their favor. So I'm just wondering if that's something that you saw, Christopher, in your time in the music industry, and how that relationship was around artists being vocal in some of these social justice issues or political issues. Like, have you, have you seen a change?

Christopher [00:08:11]:

Again, when I started, it was mostly male-dominated. And, of course, you would have certain artists who would take a stand on certain events happening in the world or certain things that weren't necessarily top of mind when it came to being popular or that they would speak out against. I think what women have been able to do is to make it their main platform. Like, it's part of their art. It's not a side dish that they go to; it's actually embedded into who they are and how they express themselves.

Christopher [00:08:53]:

Because they have lived a life of not being privileged, so to speak, that's who they are, and that is going to be expressed in their art, whereas men have different motives. It's about being a star, making the money, being the superstar; things that they may be concerned about in social life don't necessarily need to be brought into their art per se. In fact, it may even be seen as a detriment to their fame overall. I mean, I have to shout out to groups like U2 and other artists who have made social issues part of their music as well and have really triumphed in doing that. But women, in general, have always had that baked into what they have to say because that's how the world has treated them.

Christopher [00:09:57]:

They've had to overcome so much that it cannot be helped but be baked into the message that they put out into the world. I don't know that male artists get treated any differently in terms of working wages and so on and so forth. I'm not sure that males had that privilege. Males had the privilege of a platform that worshiped male artists. So, they had an open door to make the kind of money and gain the kind of fame that women didn't have access to. So that became their working wage. They had fame, they had money, and they had access to everything that they needed, including their social and financial needs.

Christopher [00:10:41]:

So I'm not sure how that can be baked in or worked into signing with a record label because I don't know that they see that as their responsibility. Their responsibility is to finance you and get you on the big stage so you can make more money for them and for yourself. That's their role. So I'm not sure. I find it fascinating that a woman would take that model and reshape it into, okay, let's make this into a regular job situation where you take care of my dental, etc, etc, etc. That is fascinating to me, and it's amazing that a woman has brought that up as the model going forward. That's cool.

Heather [00:11:26]:

I was equally surprised because I think that we do put celebrities and record labels on a pedestal of you'll be able to afford those things because you're on the big stage and you're bringing in what you think is a substantial amount of income in order to get your own health care coverage through a private company or what have you. But her thoughts, and she did articulate that it was around the emerging artists, that just isn't the case. They're still trying to get exposure. So an interesting and, yes, I think, very cool conversation to open other people's minds to the prospect of this is still a job, and these people invest their whole lives into making it a livelihood. So pretty darn cool with that. And just for what you were saying with the other pieces that these women that you worked with in the music industry, that what they put forward in their activism was part of their identity or what they put forward in their music, it was just part of who they are. That's still what we're seeing with these women.

Heather [00:12:43]:

It reminds me of even at this Grammy when Shakira used her platform to talk about advocating for immigrants, which, of course, is a very bold statement in the USA right now. So that, alongside how Billie Eilish has come out in the queer community. Clearly, Taylor Swift and her whole Miss Americana was all about taking the muzzle off and being able to be her full self and not have a record label control how she talks or what she says or how she says it. And it just seems to me that they're using their voices for bigger conversations, that music isn't just for entertainment, but it is activism, and it is their identity and power. So, it's nice to hear how women have carved the way for that in the past. And, it continues to reach bigger and bigger heights to not back down from the box that people try to put us in.

Christopher [00:13:44]:

Yeah. Like I said, I didn't know that I was being influenced when I worked with these women. However, the way that they express themselves, the truth that they expressed in their work and in everything they did, obviously I was influenced by that. I saw women in a space where men had been, and they were standing in that space not looking for handouts, not looking for favors; they were there with enormous strength to express themselves, not knowing what feedback would be even within their own industry, but doing it anyway because that was their truth. I learned a lot just being in the presence of women like that, with the kind of strength that they showed and the honesty that they approached their work every single day.

Christopher [00:14:43]:

For me, it changed my life, really. I don't think I'd be doing this show if I hadn't been influenced by women with that kind of strength in their character.

Heather [00:14:55]:

Absolutely. I think the other thing that we also saw out of this Grammys with Charlie XCX and with Chappelle Rohn is they say that Chappelle Roan is like a theatrical pop, and Charlie is hyper-electric pop, and typically, these are categories that don't get all the way up to the top of the charts and have their time in the sun, or the mainstream arena. So there is something to be said about women taking their artistic expression and really running with it in a way that you can't not look at them. You can't not be intrigued with what they're doing and bringing these genres that you don't often see on the Grammy stage really into full effect.

Heather [00:15:50]:

I mean, Chappelle Rohn's performance with the Pink Pony, I have never seen a performance quite like that. But she seems, you know, when you see her, see her in interviews, and when she talks about the relationship she had with her father and what that kind of dramatic, sometimes campy, theatrical pop meant to her as being able to have fun and joy in life, even going through so many of the hardships that people are facing today and different communities or marginalized groups are facing. To me, that performance really encapsulated that and kind of broke out of the norm and, you know, as they say in the queer community, let your freak flag fly and fly it proudly.

Christopher [00:16:38]:

Well, I mean, obviously, that's the paradigm shift in music. It's that you don't need a label, per se, in order for you to find your audience anymore. That was the gateway to building an audience and gaining whatever fame to reach whatever you could imagine. You don't need a label to give you that anymore.

Heather [00:17:04]:

No, that's very true. And even with Charlie, she had a hit, I don't know, it was over a decade ago, and she came back with fury over these last couple of years with her Brat album. And I'm like, there's not a woman that I talked to young, old, it doesn't matter what their age is, that didn't either know what Brat meant or was confused because they had heard their kids saying it or the younger generation saying it, but it was absolutely iconic. When you talk to younger women, that album speaks to what Brat meant. You know, I'm gonna try my best here because, you know, I'm talking about Zoomers, and I'm a Millennial.

Heather [00:17:47]:

So this is the younger generation for me; I'm really feeling my age, Christopher. But that it is like an uninhibited, unapologetic sense of self and that you deserve your own exploration, and you deserve to stand for who you are and love the way you want to love and love your body, love your passions, your ambitions, and that if people don't want that for you or respect that in you for what you are, that it doesn't matter, that it's Okay. I could be called a brat. I think there's some parallels even with what people used to call bitch. Right? I think there's some parallels even with what people used to call bitch. Right?

Christopher [00:18:28]:

No, they're the same. Because if you talk about Bitch the way we talk about and we propose and promote it, there's no difference.

Heather [00:18:44]:

Absolutely. I really do feel like there's such a parallel there. And that's why I've just loved the conversations that we've had. That is exactly what we've been working towards. And Brat Summer was the biggest deal.

Heather [00:19:04]:

Even when Kamala was running, one of the things that Charlie said on her Twitter or on her X was Kamala was Brat. And that was a huge endorsement for her. So it's amazing to hear just how pervasive these artists have been and in absolutely shaping not only pop culture and genres of music but what that means to women in that generation who also have rippling effects on how that, you know, they talk to their moms about being unapologetically themselves and what it means to not only define their expressions as to what I've said already but really there is a really big piece to it. That's. That's their sexual. Their sexual power. Right. Like, that's part of it.

Heather [00:19:49]:

Part of what Charlie and so many other artists bring to the table is what sexuality means for women in today's world. I think that's another element that we dive into quite a bit here, but it's amazing when I think about the Grammys. Also, you saw Kendrick Lamar clean up in a way that was really great to see him honored for his amazing artistry. Like, he's so talented, and he also said to the Grammys several years ago that he would never be back because they've been so racist in who gets honored for different categories or not. And he was back.

Heather [00:20:35]:

He was back for the first time since that hiatus because it was clear that some big changes were happening with Album of the Year. I can't pronounce her name because I don't know her very well yet, but I want to get to know her better. I think it's Doechii. She won Best Rap Album. She's the third woman to ever do so. She had an outstanding performance. She's also part of the LGBTQIA + community.

Heather [00:21:04]:

It's another amazing example of somebody whose creativity has pushed the boundaries in a world where sometimes it feels like a lot of boundaries have already been pushed. She took it to a whole new level.

Christopher [00:21:17]:

Well, it's interesting. The reason I started off with life imitating art, or art imitates life, is simply because what we are seeing on stage, as you say, the representation of so many different lifestyles, is that art setting the stage that can be now transferred into life. If we're accepting it at this stage as art, are we now open in our souls and hearts to accept this in our day-to-day lives? Is that the flow of life? Is it life imitating art?

Heather [00:21:59]:

Oh, I love coming back full circle to that because, you know, I do think that when you think about how life influences art and life and art back into music, that women in music aren't just winning, you know, they're leading and they're challenging the industry and they're setting the cultural tone for what comes next. So, I think that there's a lot of promise in where we're heading next. It was an exciting night to watch. It's a culmination of all of their hard work for so many years to see that kind of change and that kind of representation.

Christopher [00:22:35]:

Absolutely, absolutely. Especially from my background and knowing these pioneering women, every time I think of this, I go back to what year was it, 1963? Leslie Gore with, You Don't Own Me!

Heather [00:23:02]:

That one just keeps coming back up, doesn't it? You know that one, it's haunting, and it's real. It's almost timeless. You know, it's a timeless, timeless song.

Christopher [00:23:12]:

It is absolutely. Yes. Let's hope that it is life imitating art moving forward because there's so much to hope for and look forward to when we look at art and where it has changed its tone over the last few years.

Heather [00:23:31]:

Absolutely. In some of the world that we're in today, politically, it honestly was a night of a lot of joy. And one of my favorite quotes right now is that joy deserves as much attention and care as the struggle. So it was very moving to see how these women are using the platforms to be that change, to be that identity, to be that power. And I'm really excited, you know, about seeing where they head next and how they keep reshaping, shaping the music industry and even life itself.

Christopher [00:24:04]:

Absolutely. Well, thanks for educating me on what today's world looks like as far as that perspective is concerned. So thank you so much for that.

Heather [00:24:15]:

I love it's so good to hear about your life in the music industry, Christopher. I always get so much out of our conversations.

Christopher [00:24:21]:

And hey, we are going to continue these kinds of conversations as we walk through and look forward forward to hearing more about the Bitch. We have a lot in the works around that word and entity. Come on back because we got a lot more for you. And you have been listening to...

Heather [00:24:40]:

The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Brat Bitch.

Christopher [00:24:45]:

Absolutely one of the same. Find us like us. Share us. Come on back. Bring your friends. We invite you all to become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us @virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different like you.

Christopher [00:25:11]:

Until next time, thanks for listening.