VBB 320: Angel Reese - Self-Expression vs. Objectification!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

So, should women be censored for what they wear or don't wear? That's at the heart of our conversation today, and it's a relevant topic every time a woman steps up to her closet. But on New Year's night, WNBA basketball superstar Angel Reese, well, she poked the bear with an outfit that literally broke the Internet. Heather, I sent you a photo because I knew this story would make your head explode.

Heather [00:00:54]:

You know me too well.

Christopher [00:00:56]:

Before we get into it, let's get a bit of background for people who don't know who Angel Reese is or are not a sports fan or a fan of the WNBA. Angel Reese is an American professional basketball player for the Chicago Sky of the Women's National Basketball Association, WNBA. They nickname her the Bayou Barbie or the Chai Barbie. She's always played basketball with long nails, extended eyelashes, and makeup. She looks great on the court; that's part of her style. So she played college basketball at LSU for the Tigers - the Louisiana State Tigers and led the team to its first championship. She was also the most outstanding player during that championship. So, during that championship run, Reese played against Caitlin Clark, the game's new superstar. And Reese kind of mocked her because her team won, but in a way that a lot of people call poor sportsmanship or sports-womanship.

Christopher [00:02:01]:

Now, since then, Angel has been under extreme media scrutiny, and on more than one occasion, she's called out the media for having double standards where she's concerned. That's what we're going to talk about today. The outfit. How would you describe that outfit, Heather?

Heather [00:02:22]:

Sexy as all get out. Like, she was absolutely rocking it. I think she looked fan-frickin-tastic and she was owning it. I, I, I loved, loved the outfit.

Christopher [00:02:38]:

Can you, can you see why people may have taken some exception to that fashion choice? How would you describe that?

Heather [00:02:48]:

I mean, I'm actually a bit shocked by all of the backlash since maybe 20, 30 years ago when women's fashion choices and sex or sexual expression were so heavily scrutinized. But I feel like in the world we're in today, where, you know, we're in, like, if you want to call it, you know, the after-effects of the rise of the MeToo movement and, you know, so many decades of women fighting to have just full autonomy over how they present themselves. I was really surprised with how much backlash there was against this. And it brings questions to why we're talking about it today. Because what about a female athlete deciding to wear the outfit that she did was, like, caused such a stirring in a world where, you know, we see a lot of celebrity women as performing artists and singers, you know, rock that kind of an outfit all the time.

Christopher [00:03:50]:

Well, I'll put it. Let's say Angel Reese is a very voluptuous woman. She has a lot of beautiful curves, and the outfit shows a lot of her voluptuousness, which, on its own, is what it is. I think for Angel, her concern is, and she is a black woman, let's add that on top of the pile as well to the kind of scrutiny she's under because that does make a difference in this world and for her, with her being compared to a white superstar in Caitlin Clark, who is not a person who has this kind of approach to the world and how she presents herself. So, there's a vast chasm of contrast between the two. So that opens her up even more for criticism from people who have to choose sides.

Christopher [00:05:04]:

I like this person over that person, for whatever reason, that all plays in, not just the outfit. The outfit becomes an excuse now to jump all over her for her choices as a woman, which basically is what we're talking about. Her choices as a woman.

Heather [00:05:25]:

Well, I mean that, yes. I think the juxtaposition between these two superstars is exactly why there has been so much backlash. It's that people, fans, etc, have chosen sides, so to speak. And even in the public eye, both entities have said that there's no feud between the two. But certainly, there's been a whole arena of both, you know, PR and even garnering more attention for the sport because there is this kind of juicy gossip behind the scenes or sometimes in front of the scene. So I think you're bang on that people have joined in on this conversation in a way that is not what we see some women, let's say, as I said, how singers or songwriters are being scrutinized.

Heather [00:06:14]:

I think there's also the element that people are still getting more used to female stardom in sports, especially with a huge takeoff of the WNBA over the last year or two. So, there's a concept in people's minds. And I'm so glad that these players, and especially Angel, have pushed back against this. But there seems to be this narrative of, okay, we can grasp having, you know, women starting to rise in sports, but this is the look that they should have, you know, sporty, you know, athletic. And that's something that feels perhaps more palatable to people. And I'll be the first to say, I mean, Christopher knows me inside and out. I don't give a damn about what's palatable to people.

Heather [00:07:08]:

I love it when people push the norms to just be who they are, and if that means that you're unpalatable to people, then just continue to do you. But I do think that it raises an important question of reimagining athletic beauty. A piece of our podcast is thinking about beauty in a lot of different types of ways, and one of the things that I was intrigued by when the WNBA really started to take off is as they're going into a game or sometimes as they're going into a practice, they catch their fits of the day, like how these women show up in different outfits before they start practice. And some of them are very much, you know like you've got like the tomboys, you've got butch, you've got femme, you've got you. And you do have many women on the different teams that are very curvy and and aren't afraid to show it. So Angel certainly isn't the first to do it or be captured in, you know, these sorts of outfits. However, I think this large-scale feud between the two superstars of the WNBA has elevated her platform and her way of expressing herself to a new level.

Christopher [00:08:29]:

Yeah, Angel speaks about this double standard because Sports Illustrated will call her to come and show off her figure in a bathing suit. And that's okay. If it's a decision made by a corporation and they're using a woman's body, that's okay. However, the moment that she chooses to use her own body for whatever her expression is in the world, suddenly, it's not okay. Because I didn't hear this kind of clapback when she appeared in Sports Illustrated that we're hearing today. Why is that?

Heather [00:09:20]:

Yeah, I think you've raised something super important because, to me, what that boils down to is people's comfortability around women expressing a brand, a brand that's public-facing versus living their authentic self and their real lives. And that one, people are, you know, when it's Sports Illustrated or maybe when these Women are coming with their fits before a tournament, but that's a different level of, of scrutiny once it's, it's her lived self on New Year's Eve when she, you know, obviously is free to dress and post however she damn well pleases.

Christopher [00:10:01]:

Yes, and it has always been part of her brand. Her look has always been part of her brand, and she has always been a sexy individual. And that is something that after basketball is over, something that she has aspired to be, is a fashion model as well. So, through this time, the offers must just be amazing, with designers and fashion moguls coming to her, offering her the wildest things to wear to express herself. So why do we want to take that away from her? But I also wanted to take into how we are in schools where there are bans on certain things that girls can wear and how we start shutting down their self-expression even at that young age. How do you feel about that element of censorship?

Heather [00:11:07]:

I mean, I, you know, I, I do think that like that this sort of grooming starts happening at a very young age for women. But, you know, even the differences that I see from when I was a young girl to the young girls today are just such a world of difference. I think they face new challenges that previous generations of women and girls didn't go through with social media and never really being able to escape either the eye of friends or, you know, your past, let's say, or how you've presented yourself online. Once it's on there, it's on for good if others have captured it. But, you know, when I see Angel take the decision to be her full self and then to leave the Instagram platform to take care of her mental health, that also is making a bold move and a bold boundary to say I'm going to do what I need to do in order to protect my mental health. And you know, with everything we've seen from her so far, I can't imagine her changing who she is. Not that I would ever want that for her. So taking that time to just feel grounded and feel centered in herself and not be at the face of all of this scrutiny at this time, I think it's a strong move to show young girls and other women, you know, that yes, it's great to be bold and sometimes being bold gets you into that spotlight and people want you to shine because of the brand you've created.

Heather [00:12:49]:

But then, at the same time, what they're saying is, we want you to be bright, but don't shine too bright on your own accord. And she's saying screw that.

Christopher [00:12:57]:

Yeah. Don't choose the frequency of your light or the sound you make. Let us choose that for you. Here's your box. Please step back in your box.

Heather [00:13:12]:

It's like you're not obligated to keep feeding a system that critiques your every move. Logging out was a liberation for her.

Christopher [00:13:20]:

Yeah. Do you believe people see it that way? As an act of defiance or liberation? Or is it seen as an act of being defeated? How do you interpret that?

Heather [00:13:35]:

I see it as very powerful and very self-motivating, and I think we've seen a lot more of that. Megan Thee Stallion took a break like this. There have been countless women who are artists or superstars who have said this is no longer okay for my mental health. And it doesn't mean that I'm going to step back from my career or my passions or dim my light as a human being. It means social online spaces can suck the energy out of you. And to replenish, I think a lot of people need time to step away. So I think that's a very healthy thing for other women to see.

Christopher [00:14:18]:

It's a double-edged sword there. I mean, she had 5 million followers on her platform, and to pull that plug. Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to say I'm more important than this following that I have. And my mental health is far more important than listening to the clapback of ignorant people over and over again.

Heather [00:14:46]:

Absolutely is the double-edged sword?

Christopher [00:14:51]:

But I mean, women don't have agency over their their bodies, number one. That goes back to the Supreme Court of the United States rolling back laws that have been in place to support women for a long time. So this is just a piece of that same kind of heavy-handedness. You cannot do what we don't want you to do in the way that you want to do it.

Heather [00:15:25]:

Yeah, I think that paints the picture for the piece of the story that I think can resonate for a lot of women. It's like how often we feel that we need to tone ourselves down just to avoid judgment. So whether that's not shining as bright or you know, readjusting yourself to not live your full potential and in fear of the backlash of when people actually do notice you, the good and the bad that comes with that. So I think there's an element of what's happening to her that a lot of women can relate to. And, you know, something that Christopher and I have talked about, and we did a little teaser for a program that we've been working on called around the concept of the Bitch. The whole point of this program is to hone in on how many ways, in different areas of your life as a woman, have you pulled back or dimmed your light or toned down in order to not shine enough to perhaps face judgment and just how much that is contributing to women's lives, not flourishing to their full potential? So I think that that's why this story really hits home because it's so relatable for many women, obviously not at her superstardom state, but in just how the concept can apply to so many of us in our own lives.

Christopher [00:16:55]:

Yeah, it goes down to the basics of just living life as a woman, wherever you are, whoever you are, that you will face pushback if you try to leave what has been standardized as the way you should behave, the way you should dress, the way you should address other people, etc. Etc. Etc. That you will, as Angel is finding out, find people want to put you back in your place, you know, back into a space where they have control and you do not.

Heather [00:17:33]:

And she's saying screw that in her own way. But I mean, something that it kind of brings back all the way back home for me, Christopher, in that, you know, this podcast, we really expand and shine a bright light on outdated concepts of the feminine. To me, this outfit that she chose is still an expression of her feminine. And there are so many, of course, different ways to express your feminine and, you know, with understanding and owning and not dimming your expression of feminine power. All of that is contributing to how other people, other women, can see you kind of shining through and breaking through really challenging clapbacks, as you said. But I think there is something to say that no one has the right to decide when you get access or when they get access to your energy. So I think when she's saying that I need this time to refocus on my own energy, that she's saying, you all don't have access to me all the time, that's something that I get to decide.

Christopher [00:18:50]:

Yeah. As I said, there are two ways to look at that. Some people would take victory out of the fact that she has pulled back on her profile on social media. This thing that has come up in conversations and I've heard other people talk about is this sense of, okay, so Angel Reese, you are dressed provocatively. You are objectifying yourself. Why are you getting twisted when others start objectifying you because of the way you dress? So I've heard that argument as well.

Christopher [00:19:30]:

It goes back to this idea that women should be the harbingers of decency because men cannot control themselves to be decent.

Heather [00:19:42]:

Right. I mean, you know, and I think you, you know, as you said, Christopher, that this is how some people are reacting to, you know, this situation, not what Christopher and I think of it. I think that sometimes, even the language we use to say she's provocatively dressed, like all of that, is just insinuating, as you said, that there's some sort of moral superiority to dressing one way or another, which leads us down a rabbit hole of a lot of discrimination and violence. And just in my mind, like, archaic ways of looking at how women dress and act. So, to the people who are still feeling and thinking that way, it's like, I don't know, it's time to move on. It's time.

Heather [00:20:33]:

Not that I'm not saying they will. A lot of people are stuck and still think that a woman is the guard, the guardian of morality. And that boils down to making sure that you don't present yourself as a sexual being. But, well, guess what? You know, we are sexual beings. And even if you as a human being, as a woman, you're asexual or pansexual or however you want to show up, that's your decision to make. So, yeah, I just think that when we go down the path of, well, you've dressed this way, so why are you upset that you're getting treated this way? It's like, no matter how I dress, it doesn't mean that you get to treat me in a poor way.

Christopher [00:21:16]:

It goes back to women do not get raped because of the way they're dressed. They get raped by men who want to rape women. It's not about the way you dress. That's just an excuse that looks great in a headline to shame or victim blame the individual.

Heather [00:21:39]:

Absolutely. And I take my hat off to all of the many organizations and educational curriculums and all of the different types of movements who have really been working day in and day out over many decades to change the narrative. Christopher and I talked about this at the close end of last year, that with Giselle Petticoat, you know her line just speaks so true that it's time for shame to shift sides. Because for so long, it's been on the victim rather than the perpetrator. It very much applies to this conversation, too.

Christopher [00:22:23]:

And if anyone's not ever heard this podcast before, I mean, that could be our slogan. It's what we work for, what we talk about, and what we bring topics to the surface to highlight. It is time for shame to switch sides and be in its proper place, not misplaced the way it has been for so long.

Heather [00:22:50]:

Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Isn't that the truth?

Christopher [00:22:54]:

So I hope that Angel's message resonates with young women in the right way and not in the way that others would like to have it influence how women feel about themselves and self-expression. I hope that her message and conversations like this will give the other side of that prejudice so her real message can be actually heard and followed by those who feel that this is how they want to live their lives. Girls who want to live their lives with their own self-expression, being themselves, feeling powerful in how they present themselves for themselves.

Heather [00:23:48]:

Yeah. And just to add to that, you know, I want to also state that there's nothing weak about walking away from negativity. To me, it's strength and satisfaction in setting boundaries. That's not running away. It's refusing to let the world dictate your worth. And that's really powerful to me.

Christopher [00:24:08]:

Absolutely. Hear, hear. Totally agree.

Heather [00:24:13]:

I got my basketball, too. Got my Raptor sign. Can't wait for Toronto's WNBA team.

Christopher [00:24:23]:

I love it.

Heather [00:24:25]:

I started my basketball league this past week, so I am super excited and a big fan of Angels.

Christopher [00:24:37]:

So, yes, absolutely, if when it comes down to it, this woman is outstanding in what she does for a living and on and off the court. Media loves controversy. It loves to stir the pot. It loves to set this person against that person. Whether or not it's actually real or not, they will find whatever they can to make that controversy take life. And a lot of this, unfortunately, reflects badly on Angel because she's the bad girl in all this.

Christopher [00:25:20]:

That's how they. They paint that picture. So power to you, Angel Reese. Girl, keep on keeping on.

Heather [00:25:30]:

Yeah, girl. Heck yeah, girl. Oh, my gosh. So we agree to that for sure. You're so right that the media, you know, is trying to paint up that controversy. And, of course, you know, there's a racial element to all of that. So I just mean, she's just such an example of not letting other people define her narrative.

Christopher [00:25:57]:

Yes, yes.

Heather [00:25:58]:

It's really cool.

Christopher [00:25:59]:

Absolutely. And that series on the bitch, we will definitely be going deeper and deeper into that about women who do take their lives into their own hands and live it the way that they believe they want to live their life. We'll definitely be getting more and more into that whole archetype as we go along here over the year. So, definitely want to come back. But I saw this story on in the news, and I thought, oh yeah, Heather's going to have something to say about this.

Heather [00:26:38]:

I'm so glad you said that was one you wanted to do on the show because when I saw the story, I was like, oof. I'm getting hot and angry. Better talk about this one. Absolutely.

Christopher [00:26:52]:

So, we definitely want to do more of these off-the-cuff conversations as we move into the new year. So come on back and join us. And you have been listening to the.

Heather [00:27:03]:

The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch.

Christopher [00:27:07]:

Find us, Like us, Share us! Share us around with as many people as you love. Come on back next time to become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different - like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.