VBB 319: Dr. Heather Browne Shares Four Important Questions To Ask Before Every Conversation!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast, inspiring women to overcome.

Intro [00:00:08]:

Social stereotypes and share unique life experiences.

Intro [00:00:11]:

Without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather. Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

It's amazing how easily we see the blind spots that hold back our friends but miss the ones we live with every day that cause us misery. If that's you, consider this. What if all you needed to reclaim your joy was a simple reframe of your situation? If that sounds way too easy to be true, we would like to introduce you to the Reframe Queen. We welcome Dr. Heather Browne to Virgin Beauty. Bitch.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:00:52]:

Oh, my goodness, what a wonderful introduction. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Christopher [00:00:57]:

Thank you, Dr. Brown, for doing this. You have been a psychotherapist for nearly three decades now, so you are very in tune with the human psyche. I'm really curious: is there a secret to reframing or gaining a new perspective on our life challenges, especially when emotions seem to be our blindfold?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:01:17]:

Well, you definitely have to recognize the place when the emotions are high first because you're not going to be able to move into a cognitive place in that space. You've got to deal with the emotions first. But once you have a little bit, there's the truth that I think we don't embrace, that everything is both. If I say yes, I will do your podcast; then I'm saying no, I'm not going to the gym this morning. And if I say yes, I'll take care of myself and go to the gym this morning, then I need to say no. This is a commitment I can't do. It's. It's as easy to turn on a light as it is to turn off a light.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:01:57]:

So with that knowledge that moves my head into okay, then which do I choose? Do I choose to be in the light? Do I choose to be in the dark? Do I choose to be taking care of myself? Do I choose to be in taking care of you? And one isn't right, and one isn't wrong, but you can't have both very well at the same time. So reframing is very much about which way you look at the choices that you're making and what choices you are making. Let's evaluate that and change it up. If it's not working for you like that worked until then, now it doesn't. Let's reframe this and look at it from this moment. And so it moves you into the present moment, thinking about your choices, thinking about your actions, and truly thinking instead of just being reactive, which I think is very helpful. Plus, it empowers you. It's my choice. I made this decision.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:02:51]:

Good, bad, whatever. I made this choice. And I think most of us are in a place in this world where being empowered by our own choices, thoughts, and actions is important for us to move through life a little bit more fluidly.

Christopher [00:03:04]:

I think that so many of us start off with a lack of self-confidence that we are not really sure of the choices if they are what we actually want or if we are so conditioned now to please others it becomes how do we differentiate and how do we get to that space where we actually know what we want?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:03:29]:

Well, you hit a really important place in our world, which we are now conditioned to please. The other babies come into the world thinking they're perfect, and then someone's face, words, and actions will show them disapproval. And then they start to question, you know, will you receive me? Will you love me if I smile, you're nicer. So we start to change ourselves. And then certainly when you get into the social world, I think in those circles where you start to see I'm doing this for you or I'm concerned about what you think. I think we start to fall into those places, which, for most of us, leads us to anxiety and depression. And then those are places to say I'm not feeling good within myself, and do I really know what I want? And then there's a place of asking yourself, well, what do I not want? What do I know about myself? What can I choose? It's curious that we say we have bad self-esteem because I think we really have bad other-esteem. I think we're comparing ourselves to somebody else. And I think self-confidence would do the same thing.

Dr. Heather Browne[00:04:36]:

I think for most of us if we really took the time to say, well, what is it that I need for me, it's very hard to stay there and find out what it is because we are so programmed to, you know, you need to fit into the school system, the work system, the life system. And so, to me, it's taking time by yourself, walking, praying, yoga, nature, running, swimming. Taking time to find out, well, what really does honor my spirit, my soul, my heart? What do I really think my purpose is in life? Or, what do I choose my purpose to be? And then there's more clarity in that. Now, there's also the place to recognize that we've only grown to where we are. So, do I feel fully confident in this world? Probably not, because there's more for me to learn, and that's okay, I'm not done. I'll never be done. I'll just pass over. So if I let that be my truth, then it's easier to be who I am, where I am, and allow the world and the situation of people and myself to guide me for what it is that I'm to learn at this moment.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:05:43]:

Because I've only lived to this moment, I don't really know how to live in a second. In a second, in a second. I just know how to try to figure out life right now. It's interesting if you meet with someone who has their life going pretty darn well; they wake up in the morning, they're ready to go, and they feel like today is going to go well. When you meet someone who's just fallen into tragedy, they feel like they have no idea what to do. It's actually the truth for both always. It's just that when we think we've got control over our lives, we feel so much more confident.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:06:22]:

When we don't know what's next, we feel lost. Yeah.

Heather [00:06:28]:

So what would be your thoughts around, like, let's say a person has gone through tragedy or feels lost and is. Is trying to cultivate that sense of self where they feel, you know, a sense of control over the elements of life that they, they, they can. Something that Christopher and I explore in this show is thoughts on the authentic self. And I love what you've already said about finding that piece of yourself with, you know, really spending time with yourself in yoga and nature and the things that bring you joy and the things that bring you peace. And you, you know, we've exercised. Looking at what does it mean to strip back all of the roles that you play and look at the person beyond the roles and expectations, which of course is easier said than done, and not negating that those roles often do play a very essential piece of our hearts or our minds and are important. So, I'd love your thoughts around what people have gone through in the last five or six years, and really trying to find that more steady footing. I'd just love to hear your thoughts on how a person can try to work towards that.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:07:48]:

Well, exactly what you said, Heather. Going into places that give you space to explore your own essence. And for a lot of us, that is nature. For a lot of us, that is a slow, contemplative movement. It might be walking, it might be swimming, it might be horseback riding. For some of us, it's through art, writing, Painting, singing, or dancing. So it's giving yourself that place. Meditation, to me, is huge, as is prayer.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:08:18]:

Giving yourself that place to move out of, I'm Heather Brown, you know, female, living in California, to I am a person on this earth, and I'm connected to all. To me, I think meditation and prayer are the closest way to go beyond the cognitive, rational human mind and move into the spirit and the divine, which we are all of, and we're all connected to. But we forget that in our human form. You know, it's what has been said for so many years. You know, I am a human person living a spiritual journey, or I'm a spiritual journey in a human form. They're both true.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:09:07]:

And we often are more aware of one side or the other. Certainly, up until retirement age, a lot of our thought process is the human form. Gotta work, gotta provide, gotta take care of things. I think it's part of the reason why empty nesters in retirement can be so incredibly hard for people because who they have been and what they've been known for now is not. And so what does that make of me? I'm a widow. And then, both of my kids moved out within two weeks, years after their dad had passed. It just ended up being that way. And I remember it was like, whoa. Like I'm in a house by myself with some pets.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:09:50]:

I remember thinking I could go to bed after work on Friday and not get out of bed until Monday morning, and I don't know if anybody would even know. And I don't know if it even matters. And then I thought, well, I think it matters to me. And that's where a little birth was born. But there's the place of what are you doing in this life that is really your expression of you. And if you don't know what that is, can you give yourself time to simply sit in that and find what it is? It doesn't have to be really big. There was a day in Covid where, and it was hard for me because I lost my whole outside connection with everybody.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:10:30]:

Zooming clients at home by myself, like, oh Lord. I went for a two-and-a-half-hour bike ride, came home totally exhausted, and crashed on the lawn. I didn't want to go in the house. So I'm laying on the front lawn panting, and I looked at the bottom of a rose, and I went, that's kind of pretty. So whenever I looked at the bottom of the rose, I had this beautiful blush, and the green was going in. I smelt it to see if you can smell more from the bottom, which you can't. You can smell more from the top. And I went and looked at all the bottoms of the roses in my yard, and I was fascinated because I'd never really looked at them before. I took a video and sent it to my daughter. She calls me, and she says, Mom, you're having the best day.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:11:12]:

I went, interesting. So what I'm going to say is going to sound a little odd, but you guys will get it. I think the best way to find yourself is to get outside of your human self and to allow yourself to move into your spiritual nature. Connected art, connected essence, connected way of being. Because the human self is the doer, and I think the connection to the self is the being. And I don't think we give ourselves much time with that, especially with how connected we are to technology. People are just constantly on their phones, and so that takes you away from letting me be in this place and find what it is that I do feel. Find what it is that I am aware of. Oh, the sun, the wind, My Heart is beating.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:12:12]:

I hear my neighbor talking. Getting back to the simpleness of life can then guide to beautiful, simple, simple joys, which ties into the feminine, too.

Heather [00:12:27]:

I was gonna just say that because in some of the conversations Christopher and I have had, where I've landed is really a deep feeling that the masculine energy or essence, not that you can ever really put them into words, is more around the doing and the movement and action and the feminine being, the being. But I would love to hear from you. What does feminine mean to you?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:12:59]:

Well, I love this question because, especially where our world is right now, with gender fluidity. I've had so many people come to me and they say, I think I need to change my orientation because I don't feel feminine or I don't feel masculine. I'm like, what the heck does that even mean? Who decides for you what it is? So, mind changes. So if I say this is how I feel feminine is right now, what I actually do is I go off of where I am. So, right now, it would be soft. Right now, it would be tender. Right now, it would be contemplative. But other days, it's going to be very mothering and nurturing. Some days, it's going to be spicy. Spicy and a little sexy. So, to me, the beauty of femininity is part of that. I give myself that opportunity to move into how it is or what I am feeling at this moment and to allow that energetic presence to be a little bit fuller. I think you can do the same thing for the masculine. Are you in the protector mode? Are you in the fixer mode? Are you in the conqueror mode? Are you in the warrior mode? Are you in the father mode? Which one are you in? And there isn't just one state. It's more encapsulated. And to me, what's really beautiful about femininity is giving yourself the permission to explore what is coming up or what is wanting to come through. It feels very, very much like water to me.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:14:36]:

Femininity feels very much like water, like wind, like tenderness, softness, and wisdom. Certainly, there's the aspect of the mother and the elderly crone as well. To me, that's very feminine and very beautiful. Mother Mary Kuan Yin. Those energies always come through for me when I think of feminine.

Christopher [00:15:02]:

That's very, it's very powerful. You've spoken now on two different topics, and I get an image in my brain of a rock standing in the middle of a river and, the feminine being that river and the masculine, as we say, being that rock. And I think the worst thing we have done as human beings is try to define these words in gender form.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:15:27]:

Oh, I agree with you a hundred percent. Thank you. Bless you for that. Yes, yes.

Christopher [00:15:33]:

Right.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:15:34]:

Because they're not there. I have so many masculine traits in me. Thank God I do. I was on my own at 17. I was a widow at 51 to raise two kids. I had to be. But I'm not only that, and that doesn't mean there's something wrong with me that I stepped into that form or shape I needed to. But there's also the place of, well, do I feel that this is serving me, or do I feel I'm cut off from something or not bringing forth something that I really enjoy or would enjoy within myself because of the gender role I am placing myself in?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:16:13]:

If I am, then yeah, it's so limiting. It's so funny because we see, on the one hand, well, I don't want to be labeled, so I'll unlabel me, which then just labels you with something else. Instead of saying let yourself just explore what this is. It doesn't mean it's going to be you always, you know, if I go to a store and I try on a lipstick and say, huh, I don't know, let's see. And I go, oh, dear God, then I'm never gonna put that lipstick on again. And I'm totally fine with that.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:16:47]:

But we don't do the same things oftentimes with letting ourselves explore who we are. And I think that's a shame because I think the world is kind of a playground. And what do you want to play on, and what do you want to do, and who do you want to be at this moment and to allow yourself? Most of us will live a really long life. I would hope you would shift and grow and change a lot. It's interesting that you say the rock in the river because my daughter said to me one day, she goes, mom, you are water. And I just went, oh. And it just resonates with me deeply. You know, water embraces whatever is dropped into it, whatever it comes into. It molds itself around, but it keeps moving. It changes what it is. It touches. It isn't stopped. It goes into different forms. It transforms. And I thought, oh, isn't that glorious? It nurtures and feeds.

Christopher [00:17:46]:

Yeah.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:17:47]:

I loved it. Loved it.

Heather [00:17:49]:

And it's also a force. It is a force to be reckoned with.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:17:53]:

It is a force. Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher [00:17:56]:

So tell us about your book, Speaking With the Heart. I know you work a lot with relationships, with couples in relationships, and we've spoken about the most important relationship, which is with yourself, but transforming then that into relationships with others.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:18:13]:

Yeah. So I've been a relationship expert for 27 years, as you said, and in that time, so many people kept saying to me, know, where's your book? Where's your book? Where's your book? And, when Covid hit, my thought was, this is probably the perfect time to do it. I've worked with couples for so long, and every single couple is unique, and every situation is unique. That being said, there are some things that I think we are not taught in this world about communication and connection, and I think it's very unfortunate. I think before a child can speak, we're very intuitive with them. Once they can use their words, we rely on words. And words are simply a description of a feeling or a thought. They're a describer.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:19:04]:

They're not the essence of it. And I see that as being a shortcoming. So, I help individuals understand a bigger picture of what communication is, and I basically flip it on its head, which is why my book is Speaking With the Heart. Most of us start with words, and we bring what we want to say, and we hope the person gets it. We hope they feel close to us. And there's a lot of frustration. I do the opposite. My viewpoint is, let me start with compassion. Let me create, cultivate, and a connection.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:19:38]:

From that, when we have an agreement of how are we going to do this, and how are you going to take care of yourself, and how do we take a pause when we need to? Then, you move into the words. And I find when you turn that around, they're completely different conversations. And there are so many simple, simple, simple, simple techniques you can do to do that that we just don't know, don't recognize, or don't choose to discipline ourselves to do. And so my book is about that. Like, how do you start a conversation? Well, where are you going? What can you do when there are challenges? How do you bring in triggers and aspects of your past history that are challenging for you, and how do you help your partner negotiate that? How do you deal with sex and intimacy and money and family and budget and social life and the challenges that come up in life? And so I just walk people through giving them exercises. So when people read it, they say, I kind of feel like I'm crawling up on a couch with you. I'm like, perfect.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:20:45]:

That's what I want. At the end of each chapter, I say, okay, now we're going to go do this now. Grab a piece of paper. And so it's very workshop-ish in the sense of, I'm not just telling you what to do and say, now go do it or remember it. I'm saying, let's do this now. How'd it go? Where'd you stumble? What do we need to learn from this? Because most books out there talk at you. And I wanted to walk people through. And it was a joy to write. It's been beautiful to hear what people have said and to get some awards and accolades. That's, of course, always very fun as well.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:21:22]:

But it is my truth, you can speak with the heart as long as you take the time to care about the other person's heart as well.

Heather [00:21:31]:

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And just when you were talking about that, you said some initial kind of, you know, could you tease a couple of those steps that you were chatting a little bit about to help a person speak from the heart?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:21:49]:

Yeah, absolutely. I always say there are four really important questions to ask before you step into any conversation. The first one is, what is the outcome that I'm wanting from this? If I'm wanting to figure out what car we're buying and I'm wanting to feel honored and respected by you, I don't start the conversation by like, why can't we just get the, you know, I think about, well, where do I want this to go? If I'm going to make spaghetti, I pull out a recipe. I make certain I have all the ingredients. I make certain I have the time. And I start to follow the recipe. And depending on how good I am at cooking, it's going to be spaghetti. I don't just open up the refrigerator and start throwing things in. That's what we do with our conversation.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:22:32]:

And we wonder, why is this such a mess? Because we do that sauerkraut, ketchup, mayonnaise. You know, we're like, what the hell is this? So, have a conversation about where we are going. What do we want out of this? Then number two, am I going to bring this up in a way that's going to bless our relationship or my partner? If you're not, you do not have. You haven't spent the right amount of time to think about that. You can say anything in a way that can be helpful; it doesn't have to be hurtful. And so take a little pause there. Number three, are you open to your partner or the other person you're speaking to, their thoughts and feelings? If you're not, you're not ready. It's a lecture, it's a fight, it's a declaration and a demand. That's not a conversation.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:23:23]:

And, number four, which is so critical and we do not do it well, is asking, is this the best time? Jesus, to me, is the perfect example of this. Whether you're, whether you have a faith of. Of Christianity or not, I think it's the best example. He knew who he was. He knew what his message was. He knew what he wanted to do.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:23:48]:

He comes to the door, he knocks, and if you don't answer, he doesn't scream, yell, shove it down. He leaves, he comes back, and he knocks again. You open the door; he goes, hey, I'm Jesus. I'm the Son of God. Love to come in and have a chat. And you say, no, thanks. He goes, okay, I'll come back another time. You say, yeah, come on in, Jesus. He goes, awesome.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:24:09]:

What's the key in that? He waits till there's an invitation. Now, I want to talk to Jesus. Now I want to talk to you about the car. So if I come to you and say, when's a really good time for us to talk about the car? Let me know. Then you sort everything you need to figure out so you've done your homework, too. And then you say, now's a really good time. And you step in, now.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:24:40]:

If we would remember that. If you can get a conversation to we, it's a with. It's not an at. And it's not even just a from. It's a with. I'm speaking with you. We're exploring this together. We're going to figure this out.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:25:00]:

The biggest challenge we have with communication is we feel like it's adversarial. It's you against me my way, your way. I tell my clients you are 100% right for you. You're probably about 70% wrong for your partner, and vice versa. And when you recognize that, it's funny, but it's also very true. Of course, I'm right for me because it's the way I think and feel, and I'm never going to really understand you. That doesn't have to be sad. It's just a truth.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:25:30]:

I won't even really know if I ever really understand you. I just think I understand you. And that can be okay, because then, if I know I don't ever really, then I can be curious more and more and more and more and more and more. And that's a place that would help all of us if we could stay curious. But ourselves, but our partner, but our family, but our world, how can I connect more? How can I love more? How can I enjoy more? How can I experience more? How do I impact you?

Heather [00:26:02]:

I get so much out of those four that you've said, and I'm very intrigued with the first one because, you know, you hear a lot circulating these days around detaching from the outcome so that you don't stay as rigid as, you know, you may initially feel when you step into a conversation with a loved one or with another person. But you know, your first point of still knowing the outcome that you're hoping for. So you're not just throwing in a bunch of ingredients that you don't know. But I think the other three pillars that you talked about allow space for, you know, okay, I know the direction that I'm hoping this to go in. I see the outcome that's desirable for me.

Heather [00:26:47]:

But the other layer is knowing that the other person in the conversation has a completely different potential outcome in mind.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:26:54]:

But you start that in the beginning. What is the outcome I want? What is the outcome that you want? If I were to come to you and say at the end of this conversation, I want to buy a car, and if you were to say at the end of this conversation, I don't want to spend a dollar, I'm going to say we're not ready to have this conversation in this way. So, I understand the detachment from the outcome in the sense that it must go my way. I think it's a little reckless to have a conversation without having any desire for an outcome because I think that's just sloppy. But I think it is important to embrace. But I also need to be very mindful of yours. And so for me, if I know like we're trying to figure out where we're going to buy the car, then there's some things we've got to lay in along the way. Well, how much money do we have? How much space do we need? What kind of mileage do we want to have? What's going to happen with our insurance? There are questions to lay in, and, to me, those are the places that help you get to your outcome.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:28:00]:

And you might have if I want the blue Fiat, but you've got a reason that it needs to be a different type of car. I might need to remove myself if I want it to be a blue Fiat. So, to me, knowing this is where I would like to go. Where is it that you want to go? Where's our commonality? Where's our I say yes. You say yes, I say yes. Now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty of some things to figure out, and that's a place where negotiating is going to happen. It's probably not going to be 100% my way, probably not going to be 100% your way.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:28:34]:

There's probably going to be some things to work out between that. But if I just say well, whatever happens to me. That's not really a conversation I want to have because I do want to have an idea of where I'm going but I'm not held to, but it's only my way. There's an open-endedness. We need to figure out what car that we're going to purchase. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:28:58]:

So, at the end of the conversation, we're going to figure out that we're going to purchase the blue Fiat because that's what I want. Because if you go into that, you're just asking for frustration if the other person doesn't have the same desire as you.

Christopher [00:29:13]:

That is so powerful. It seems so simple but powerful. I wish everyone could have a little Dr. Heather Browne in their pockets to help guide us through these, you know, these things that seem so difficult at times. I think a lot of what you're speaking about is just personal maturity, right? And I, as we began this whole conversation about knowing yourself and what you want. And where and how far you're willing to go, you know, knowing what you want and who you are.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:29:54]:

And the embracing of the other. So much of us being helpful, loving, and kind in a relationship, whether it's with ourselves or with another, is in having respect for the other. My thoughts and feelings aren't right for you, okay? And yours probably aren't right for me. But can I still care about you? There's this beautiful truth that if we recognize that no one really lives our reality, that we live our own, and that there isn't only one, there's a myriad of options at any moment, then there's the place of, well, can I be a bridge? Can I be a bridge to yours? Not can I pull you to mine, but can there be a bridge? And to me, that bridge is compassion. I'll give you a snippet of a story of where it came from. When I was a child, my mom was a paranoid schizophrenic, and she would have these psychoses, and my dad would do what, you know, most people would say, it's like, Ginny, you're crazy. It's not going on. You know, you're out of your head.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:30:59]:

That didn't comfort her. And I remember one time, I was 12, and she thought that the helicopters going over the house were coming to get her, and she was petrified. My dad was saying, Ginny, it's all in your head. They're not coming to get you, blah, blah, blah, blah. I remember looking at my mom petrified, thinking, what does she need? And she needed to feel safe. And she didn't.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:31:21]:

So, as a 12-year-old, I grabbed my little blue blanket, Bambi threw it over her head, and I said, they're not going to get you, Mommy. They're not going to get you. And when she finally came out, she looked up at me with eyes that said, you believe me? Which I didn't, but I believed she believed her reality. And I went, something in my head just went, this is why you're here. If we can recognize that the other person's reality is theirs, our role is not necessarily to tell them they're wrong. It's how can I connect with you in a way that still honors me? Like, I never said, I believe you, mom, because that would have dishonored me. But I could give her love and compassion. I could try to help this world feel safer for her.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:32:18]:

To me, that's the key. How do I support you in your reality in a way that doesn't dishonor mine?

Christopher [00:32:27]:

Would you call that empathy?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:32:29]:

Absolutely. 100%, yeah. Yeah. And to me, that's such a key, but it doesn't take away my truth, and it needs to not. But I can absolutely care for you if I so choose in yours. And I think that's a place that we're very. We're short on a lot of times.

Christopher [00:32:51]:

Absolutely.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:32:52]:

It's a rare commodity, and it's so important because love isn't present without that. And if we want love, we gotta recognize, well, I have to care about you then, and you are to care about me. And if we're not doing that, then why, to me, everything in this world would be a little bit better with more love. And so if I'm not feeling like I'm getting love from you, or in the situation, I have a choice of do I cultivate more or do I just get angry that you're not bringing it? And I try, fail a lot, but I try to stay in that place of I can bring more, I can bring more. I can say, wow, you're really mad. Whoosh. I didn't. I don't really understand why you're so mad at me. Would you share?

Dr. Heather Browne [00:33:41]:

It's the bridge. Will I care about what you're feeling, though I might not feel the same at all? And in that caring space, there's so much more movement. Yeah, I know, I wish we could afford the BMW with the sunroof, and I'd love it. I wish I could buy you the car of your dreams. And we got $3,000. What do we do? But there is that place of caring about the other person's heart, and I think we could all grow that.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:34:16]:

And I think that's a very feminine quality. I think it's something that the masculine is so wanting. I think that's why we have male and female, and I think that's why we have feminine and masculine because it's very important to have that embraced. Very important. That's what charges masculinity to keep going. It's so important to be recognized, so important to be respected, so important to feel like you've got a place that's safe to come to and restore and replenish because otherwise, the masculine side of us just burns out and gives up and feels futile. And that's dangerous.

Christopher [00:35:00]:

I believe this conversation could carry on for another week probably. There's, there's so much subtlety in trying to live a good life, to understand who we are, and give from a really genuine place to others and to the world at large. There's so much that we need to discover and be open-minded and flexible towards. So, we cannot thank you enough for bringing some clarity to these very, very complex issues that people go through day after day, after day after day. And, I would recommend anyone to reach out and find your book. Let us know where we can actually show and point people to to get that book.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:35:55]:

Sure, Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but probably the easiest place is my website. www.D r h e a t h e r b r o w n e.com Dr. Heather Brown with an E. My TedX is on there. My book is on there. I have a whole page of freebies, I've got a blog, I've got a newsletter. You know, I've got programs, and I love hearing from listeners. So if you have a question you have a thought, please reach out.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:36:23]:

I'm happy to try to share what I know and if someone wants to work with me, my website obviously is the best place to find me.

Christopher [00:36:30]:

Fantastic.

Heather [00:36:32]:

Beautiful.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:36:33]:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute delight to be with you both.

Christopher [00:36:39]:

Ditto.

Heather [00:36:41]:

Yes, we've so enjoyed it.

Christopher [00:36:44]:

My day with my two Heathers. I love it.

Dr. Heather Browne [00:36:51]:

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Christopher [00:36:54]:

And you have been listening to...

Heather [00:36:56]:

The Virgin, The Beauty and The Bitch!

Christopher [00:36:59]:

Find us. Like us. Share us. Bring your friends. We have a lot to share with them as well. Come on back. To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us@virginbeauty.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Defiantly Different, like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.