VBB 318: Lisa Vanahn — From Self-Defence to Self-Discovery!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

Everybody has a plan. Until they get punched in the face, that quote is from former world heavyweight boxing champion Mike Tyson. Still, some people put themselves at risk of being punched in the face, and that is how they find their true self and their true strength. And that was the path of our guest, former professional boxer and kickboxer turned mentor and teacher, Lisa Vanahn. Welcome, Lisa, to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Lisa Vanahn [00:00:52]:

Hi.

Christopher [00:00:54]:

Our pleasure to have you. So excited to have you. Now, Lisa, you are the creator of the I Am initiative, a self-defence through self-empowerment curriculum for pre and mid-teen girls, and also the author of I Am A Girl's Guide to Harnessing Superpowers. But isn't it fair to say that for any of this to exist, you had to personally experience being punched in the face, literally as a pugilist athlete and then figuratively as a young girl who was, is it fair to say exploited?

Lisa Vanahn [00:01:29]:

It is fair to say, yeah, I have. My origin story is dynamic and not unlike many women who have gone through abusive relationships and experiences where their femininity is exploited. That's just the right word; exploited is the right word. I personally got pushed out of a Bronco. I was in an abusive relationship, and I got pushed out of a Bronco. I landed on the curb of a street and sat there for a few minutes before I turned. And there on the corner was a kickboxing studio.

Lisa Vanahn [00:02:09]:

And instead of crying until things settled and maybe I got picked back up, I didn't know what was going to happen. I went in and took a class, and that was the beginning of my new life.

Christopher [00:02:22]:

So, before then, you had no interest, no inkling towards that field at all?

Lisa Vanahn [00:02:28]:

No. I was curious, which is probably, or likely, why he pushed me out at that location. I had talked about, like, I drove by this place, and I talked about, oh, it might be fun to try a class, or it might be fun to go in and do something. So I had thought about it, but I hadn't explored that. And then, on this particular day, there was. There was a series of things that happened where he just flipped out, and he grabbed me, and he pulled me into the car.

Lisa Vanahn [00:02:57]:

I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know where we were going. And then, right as we were kind of pulling up that street, he opened the door and pushed me out and then drove off. And as he was, he did say, you can go in and take a class, or you can sit on the curb. I don't care what you do. So I went in, and I took a class. I cried through the entire class.

Lisa Vanahn [00:03:21]:

I was a hot mess. I was just crying and punching and crying and kicking. And what's beautiful is the studio was owned by two sisters who really witnessed that I was in. I was in it. And they didn't know why or what, and they didn't need to know. They just witnessed me in it. And they said, please come back. We think that this would be a great place for you to be.

Lisa Vanahn [00:03:45]:

Fast forward to two years later. I was teaching full-time at that studio and working on extricating myself. It took me three and a half years after that day to actually fully extricate myself from this abusive relationship. I needed to get a restraining order. There were a lot of things that needed to happen. But the reason I survived that relationship was because I was parallel-working my life.

Lisa Vanahn [00:04:14]:

I was going to the studio and taking these classes and getting stronger and then going back into this abusive relationship. I was kind of living these two lives. But I needed this. I needed the kickboxing. I needed this new community to help me build this strength. Because at 19 years old, I had experienced just abuse after abuse after abuse. There was really, like, I was just a shell of nothing.

Lisa Vanahn [00:04:43]:

And that needed to be built up in order for me to bravely leave. Leave the abuse behind for good. And I will say for good. That was when I removed myself from that relationship. In the remaining years, I've been in a number of different relationships, but I can gladly say that while they haven't all ended in togetherness, they have all ended well.

Lisa Vanahn [00:05:09]:

I've been in and met many lovely people along my path, and I've had beautiful relationships that, for whatever reason, have not continued, but they've all ended well.

Heather [00:05:19]:

When you talk about how finding that new community helped build you back up, what do you think were the core elements of what you were learning there? Like, is it the techniques? You're building up a new skill set with people around you? You're growing as a human being? What were the steps that got you to the point where you're feeling, I guess, less of a shell again?

Lisa Vanahn [00:05:44]:

Well, what I would say is when you have experienced gargantuan levels of trauma in your life, going inward is tricky. Like, you don't want to touch what's in there. I want to run away from what's in there.

Lisa Vanahn [00:06:07]:

This is why so many people who are in that, people who have experienced trauma, end up in addiction or end up in outward, external experiences where you can see that they're trying to escape. And then what they're really running away from is what's inside.

Heather [00:06:26]:

So, it's like if you touch anything inside, the whole thing might fall apart. Hold on, hold on.

Lisa Vanahn [00:06:32]:

Yeah. And so I feel what happens is we're not just physical beings. We are spiritual beings. We are energy beings as well. So everything first occurs in the mental realm and then the astral realm, and it moves through frequency and vibration down to the physical realm. And that's where everything gets held; it is in the body. So we talk about, and I don't know if you've ever heard of, a beautiful book called The Body Keeps the Score. I highly recommend it. Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine is another great book about how the body holds trauma.

Lisa Vanahn [00:07:14]:

Without shedding some of this, some of this trauma in my body, I couldn't actually go inside and do the internal work. I needed to get some of it out of my body first. And that's what happened. I was like just going and learning. Learning strength moves, learning the jab, the cross, the kicks, punching, kicking, having the action. On a daily basis, I would go, and for one hour, I would take strong action.

Lisa Vanahn [00:07:48]:

Granted, the rest of my day could be spent hiding and cowering from this relationship, but I had this anchor to this kickboxing studio where I would go and practice strong action. And what we love to talk about is that consistency is key. So, it was over the course of a couple of years. So I love that because people are like, just get out of the abusive relationship. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna walk away from this person that basically has me wrapped in fear, believing that if I walk away, my family's gonna get killed. I'm gonna get killed. You know what I mean? Like, the people who aren't in it don't understand. You don't. You know, they're like, why doesn't she just leave? I'm like, why don't you just shut up? Don't talk about what you don't have any experience with.

Lisa Vanahn [00:08:51]:

One of my favorite things to say is I didn't just go in and take a class and leave a relationship; I went in, I took a class, and then I kept going back. And it took me, like I said, a few years before I was able to actually work that relationship out and keep bringing in the new. And it was happening in the physical realm. I was having conversations with powerful women. I was able to vent some of the stuff that was happening. I felt supported. I felt heard. I felt listened to in the confines of the studio. It was really. This dojo was a safe haven for me.

Lisa Vanahn [00:09:27]:

And I continued to expand that. As I expanded it, I started to naturally move inward. I started taking these strong actions, and then I started to feel stronger. And when I started to feel stronger, I started to think stronger. What I like to teach my young women is that the natural order is to move from the mental plane to the physical plane. The natural order is first, you have a thought, and then you have a feeling that attaches to that thought, and then you take action based on the thought and the feeling. If things are in alignment and I have a thought like, Ooh, I have this beautiful thought that I'm strong; then I feel strong, and then I take strong action.

Lisa Vanahn [00:10:15]:

When you're a person who has been beaten down by the world over and over and over, your thoughts are not your own any longer. And your feelings are really held captive by this trauma that you're holding in the body. Reverse engineering is taking action, moving it through the body first, and then taking that, moving through the body into the feeling and then back into the thought. So you're reverse engineering. That's what I did for myself, and that's what I learned. It worked. And I have been doing this for decades.

Lisa Vanahn [00:10:56]:

I was doing this back before kickboxing was powerful. Now we look around, you look on Instagram, and you have all of these somatic teachers and these people teaching ecstatic dance, and they're teaching how to get in the body to heal the trauma instead of getting out of the body. And it's powerful stuff. I love watching some of the healing work catch up with these things I was figuring out on my own. Back then, there wasn't really the same access to stuff that there is now. It's exciting to me how much access there is to healing now.

Christopher [00:11:37]:

When did expressing all of that anger and hurt, when did that become a profession for you? Why did that become a profession for you?

Lisa Vanahn [00:11:51]:

I think it was the only thing I'd ever done that I felt so good doing. It just felt natural to move into it. I was taking classes regularly, and kickboxing was getting popular. The classes kept getting full. So, it was kind of this natural progression of the sisters who own the studio saw how dedicated I was. I loved it.

Lisa Vanahn [00:12:14]:

I was there all the time. It was really my second home. And then as it got busier, they're like, we need help. Would you be interested in teaching? So, I believe in serendipity, I believe in synchronicity, and I believe that this was my path. And so it opened effortlessly for me. There wasn't really even a decision other than it started with, would you like to teach a class? Of course, I would.

Lisa Vanahn [00:12:44]:

What an honor. You know, they want me to teach a class. Wow. They think so highly of me and the skill set that I could teach. That's amazing. Which also built me up into more confidence. Then that got me added to another class, and then things kept getting busier. So then, lo and behold, I was teaching full time, and I was working there full time.

Lisa Vanahn [00:13:05]:

For me, after getting the skills, it was a natural progression into sparring, which is like practice fighting. And with sparring, I found I really loved the strategy of not just hitting pads but how do I avoid punches coming at me and then throwing them. Like, I really enjoyed it. So then it was like, I want to try having a real fight. I want to try that. And so I did. The first person I fought her name was Lisa, too, which was brilliant because I was in this Knights of Columbus Hall. It was all smokey back then, and people in there, and there's beer getting slung around, and everybody's yelling, Go, Lisa. Go, Lisa, everyone.

Lisa Vanahn [00:13:54]:

And it was so great cheering for me, which is not true. It was the best scenario it could have been. And it was so close. It was back and forth. And she hit me so hard, harder than I'd ever been hit. And when it was over. I won. I just snuck out a win.

Lisa Vanahn [00:14:12]:

It was a very close fight. And I was like, I'm never doing that again because I got hit so hard. And I love Tyson. I love that he said that everyone has a plan until you get knocked. Yeah, punched so hard, you're like, I'm done. Like, I don't know what I'm doing now. And I was like, I'm done. I'm not going to do this again.

Lisa Vanahn [00:14:33]:

But three days later, I was like, okay, when am I going to do it again? And that was my entire relationship. The whole time I fought was the excitement of preparing for a fight, the dread of the night, of the fight, of it actually happening, and then the elation after it was over and wanting to do it again. I never actually really enjoyed getting hit. I mean, who does? But, like, the fight part wasn't my favorite part. It was more of the process of getting ready for it, the excitement of getting ready for it. And then, of course, putting on the show, and then it's done, you know, so it was it was just a ride.

Christopher [00:15:22]:

That's great. That's great

Heather [00:15:23]:

I can definitely appreciate how we store all these things in our bodies. I do find some of the somatic stuff very therapeutic, but to me, there's nothing like punching to get shit out of your body.

Lisa Vanahn [00:15:38]:

Right?

Heather [00:15:40]:

Punching and kicking are my favorite. My favorite workout by a long shot.

Heather [00:15:46]:

In fairness, I'm not at the point where I'm fighting anyone, but I enjoy it just in a group setting with a punching bag. So it's extreme. It just gets it out of your system. And that feels so good.

Lisa Vanahn [00:15:59]:

I agree with that. I also say I occasionally encounter when I'm doing work with the body, and with emotions in mind, we work it all together. So we interweave it. Sometimes, I work with people who are like, I'm not comfortable hitting. And then we find or get into it and talk about it. But, like, there have been, I can't even say, decades, more like centuries of women's anger being repressed and suppressed. It's like this is not an okay emotion for women to have. Maybe once or twice in the last 20 years of working with people, I have found that someone I work with tried it, and they're like, I can't do it. I'm uncomfortable. And then I'm like, okay, that's great. You don't have to.

Lisa Vanahn [00:16:57]:

You know what I mean? It's not for everyone. What I find most often is when permission is given in a safe space to release their frustration, their anger, the rage, the rage, you know, and this is like rage that goes back so flipping far. What I believe in my practice is that not only are you holding your own personal trauma, I believe in epigenetics. I believe in the lineage that we're not only just holding our own personal traumas, but we're holding the traumas of our lineage. We're holding the traumas of the type of body that we are housed in. And, you know, if that's a minority body, that's a. A marginalized body, there's a lot of rage to get out.

Christopher [00:18:00]:

I agree with you so wholeheartedly. I believe if you follow biblical history, this goes back to Eve. It goes that far back.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:12]:

Oh, absolutely.

Christopher [00:18:12]:

And it has been built up all these centuries and with no release.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:19]:

Right.

Christopher [00:18:19]:

That's cruel.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:21]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher [00:18:22]:

So I'm happy that you are doing what you do and allowing that to be, you know, part of your. The person's identity is not something odd or strange or unbecoming of a woman.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:36]:

Yeah, I love that you said that, Eve, too, because I'm personally enjoying an apple-flavored Izzy right now.

Christopher [00:18:43]:

There we go. Bite that apple.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:46]:

Apple flavored.

Christopher [00:18:49]:

Oh, bite that apple.

Lisa Vanahn [00:18:51]:

I'm just over here. Even it up.

Christopher [00:18:53]:

Yeah, find him. Find a man to share that with and take him down with you.

Heather [00:19:04]:

With a good kick. I hope our listeners hear this and if they've ever thought that something like that was unbecoming because I certainly have faced that with ex-partners. When I tell them I kickbox or somebody that I've just started dating, they're like, oh. I'm like, does that intimidate you? And it's surprising that for some people, it still does. I'm not trying to come for you. You know what  I mean? I'm not building up these skills for the next time we have an argument. But it is a special kind of release I find from that type of workout that I've never found anywhere else.

Lisa Vanahn [00:19:46]:

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I'm on the same page with you on that.

Christopher [00:19:52]:

When girls come to you, do they come to you with that kind of enthusiasm of wanting to just get in there and kick stuff around, or do they come to you with more traditional attitudes?

Lisa Vanahn [00:20:01]:

I would say that I run into more trepidation or self-consciousness in older women that I work with or who come to me when I do one-on-one coaching with them. But when I'm doing Girl Scout groups or camps or one-on-one coaching with teen girls, they're excited. They're like, we get, and you think about how we perpetuate the permission like we're gonna get to hit stuff? That's amazing because we do that, where we part children in particular gender roles based on that's what the boys do. They go around and hit each other, and why can't the girls do that? You know, so you get to see that it's not their decision to sit down and be nice and play with dolls. Given the opportunity to hit some mitts and learn how to kick, they're into it. They get really into it, and they love it. They're just like, ahhhh. They're like yelling, and it's so fun to watch. It's really encouraging.

Lisa Vanahn [00:21:19]:

You know, when I work with the younger women, I'm encouraged to see the resiliency and the enthusiasm to be themselves, be authentic, and just try new things. Still, that light is there, you know.

Christopher [00:21:37]:

I really love this quote from you. My grandest dream is to empower young girls to follow their dreams, believe in themselves and live their lives proudly and joyfully in the body that they were gifted. That's beautiful.

Lisa Vanahn [00:21:53]:

Yeah, I do. I spent a number of years in the fitness world. Fitness and nutrition were a natural progression. After I retired from boxing, I moved home. I started working at a studio. I opened a studio, and I worked in that framework for enough time to be done. And even people coming to me, I work movements based on healing. I don't work on movement based on external change. So I don't want you to kickbox because you want arms like mine. I don't want you to work out with me because you don't like your butt, and you're trying to change your butt. I get there's a place for it in the world, and it's absolutely okay.

Lisa Vanahn [00:22:43]:

But I just reached a point where I was like, that's not what movement is for me. Movement for me as a healing practice. It is a practice of coming home to the body. And you don't come home to the body with movement when you're going into the movement trying to change what is there or what is that, you know it is going to change. And that's the beauty of it. Naturally, I say, hey, if you're not really happy with where your body is right now, that's okay. Your body is going to change no matter what you think.

Lisa Vanahn [00:23:17]:

You don't think about it now, but in 25 years, your body's not going to be the same. Your body, 20 years ago, you were out; you were looking in the mirror at a completely different body. So, you can move it through the process of all the different changes and all the different ways that it's going to look? We're so identified with the body, and that's not who we are. It is where we are housed. Our consciousness is housed in this body. When I think about things moving from the mental plane to the astral plane to the physical plane and the body holding, I get a little emotional, but the body holding this trauma for us and then, and then our response is, I hate you. I don't like the way you look.

Lisa Vanahn [00:24:16]:

I don't, like, I don't, you know, like this, this anger and hatred and loathing for the body when it's held up, it's held this trauma for us so that we can, we can wait until we're ready to move through it and process it and heal. And until that happens, it's holding for us without any, any request, you know, to, for love or, I mean, it wants it, but it just, it just does it, it just holds. It's unconditional, and we're in there going, you know, it's not okay.

Christopher [00:25:03]:

It's not so much of that. It's more that there is a body ideal that girls grow up seeing and being pushed towards achieving. And that's where the disconnect, I think, comes from. It's that they see an ideal that they feel they must reach, and the truth about their body, as you're saying, is lost in trying to achieve that ideal.

Lisa Vanahn [00:25:32]:

Yeah, I mean, the anger would be, would be rightly placed. Placed in society. Right. But we're all a part of that. We're a part of the perpetuation of what the deal is.

Heather [00:25:52]:

But I love what you had to say because there's something that starts to erode that sense of just being in something for what the results are going to be. To come home to yourself just as a good in and of itself, to spend that time with your body and love it exactly how it is. I think that starts to fray at the seams of what society makes women force themselves into. So I appreciate the way that you said it because it was really beautiful.

Lisa Vanahn [00:26:24]:

I spent so many years hating myself, and my body was being exploited. All of this was informed as I experienced it. I breathe so freely in my life right now. Like, I wake up, and I know what's possible. I just want to share that or want that experience for girls, and I want that experience for them now so that they don't go through the many years that I went through. I want you to know it's a challenge growing up; it's a challenge growing into a body, and it's a challenge growing into a mind. You know, developing a psyche, an ego, and a personality collection of all these thoughts. You're going to grow up with stuff that eventually you're going to be like, that doesn't work for me anymore.

Lisa Vanahn [00:27:32]:

You're going to have to peel apart and really come back into yourself again. But ultimately, if we start with younger generations and teach them, we don't spend the time teaching mental and emotional intelligence. And when we take time to teach that, it really opens up the possibility for people to be authentically themselves from the very beginning. Imagine that you don't have to build this fake self all the way only to tear it apart later in life. You know, there are communities where children are being schooled differently.

Lisa Vanahn [00:28:18]:

They're growing up learning not just about how to be a part of society; they're learning how to be a part of this individualized body with the understanding and knowing that they are conscious within that. Also, they are more than the body, and they have a great range of potential and abilities that cannot be contained. The powers that be don't like that they want to keep you small. Because if they keep you small, then you're always looking outside of yourself. So then you're a part of consumerism, you're a part of the capital, and you're a part of society, which is always devouring. And when you realize that going in is where it's at, and loving this and being your own best friend and following your heart and letting the universe unfold into this beautiful experience, you're like, whoa, all that is bullshit.

Heather [00:29:33]:

We love to ask our guests, Lisa, of the three names in our podcast, does one really speak to you or have a story or a response of the Virgin, the Beauty, or the Bitch?

Lisa Vanahn [00:29:50]:

I love the Virgin for two reasons. I'm going to say the first one is I remember encountering dating people after some of my experiences and them saying, well, you're not a virgin. And because I was raped as a young girl. And I remember that just feeling like I didn't get to choose that status of losing my virginity, which to me now is just crap.

Lisa Vanahn [00:30:26]:

The first time you consensually share yourself with another person is your first time. And I believe that. I always wanted this idea of the Virginess. But now I would say I identify with it because I wake up every morning, and I'm like, oh, good, I'm here again. Okay, what are we going to do today? Like, what's going to happen and what's going to unfold? And I have a couple of things on the agenda, but the rest of it's kind of open. So let's go for new things; let's meet new people and have new experiences. I love this idea of stepping into each day as a virgin.

Lisa Vanahn [00:31:05]:

Like, have you done that before? Well, no, not today I haven't. You know, because people were like, well, I've done that. I've seen that. I've been there, but you can always bring this attitude that you haven't done it.

Lisa Vanahn [00:31:18]:

You haven't seen it. You haven't been there before because this moment is unique and new and different. And if you don't bring the past into it, if you really come at it with this new eyes and this beginner's learning experience, then you're like, oh, this is fun. And then sometimes you're like, well, it's not for me. And then you move on to the next thing. But you aren't bringing all of this extra information.

Lisa Vanahn [00:31:45]:

You're just present. I think that the ability to just be there, fresh and new, is very Virgin.

Christopher [00:31:53]:

Like, I don't know how to say it. We are split mind cells here, the three of us because when Heather and I started the show, these three words came to us. They were cool words. However, we've been doing this podcast for six or seven years, and these words have taught us so much. They have so much depth and breadth. And what you just said about the Virgin is exactly how we feel about it. It's timeless; it's not an event. It's every moment that you're in. You're a virgin at that moment. And it goes on perpetually, forever.

Chri topher [00:32:42]:

We could not. We could not have scripted your little take there any better.

Lisa Vanahn [00:32:49]:

I love it.

Heather [00:32:50]:

Kindred spirits. Us too.

Christopher [00:32:56]:

We spent the last spring equinox doing four shows specifically on the virgin and came to the conclusion that this is how the word can be interpreted by every single person. It can be timeless. It can be yours forever. Not something you lost, or something that was taken away from you, or something you don't have a choice over. Every moment, you're a virgin, so get on with it. Come on.

Christopher [00:33:24]:

Thank you so much for that. So you're working with young girls. How do people connect with you? Your work sounds so powerful. How do people connect with you?

Lisa Vanahn [00:33:41]:

This is perfect timing because I just launched a Kickstarter. For the last eight years, I've created these superpower cards. They are I AM cards. I AM are the two most powerful words in the English language. What you put behind them is who you become. We don't really notice how we communicate with ourselves. You know, more attention to that is always beneficial.

Lisa Vanahn [00:34:08]:

And so these are meant to help you every day. I share them with people. I carry them around. My coffee shop is always like, oh, my gosh, can we pull a card today? I carry these cards around, but there are three decks in the new edition, the new deck decks. There's a strong deck, a confident deck, and a powerful deck. And there's a book, a journal, and a guidebook that goes with that. I'm just kickstarting it.

Lisa Vanahn [00:34:33]:

They're in this beautiful magnetic box. The cards are circles now because, to me, that's just yes. I'm Gonna pull a card. These are the last versions of the cards. My favorite thing about these is each one is a shadow superhero. They're all different.

Lisa Vanahn [00:34:52]:

Here, she's got a hijab on. Different forms of diversity and ethnicities are represented in the shadows and in their hairstyles. We even have an able-challenged person. I don't know if that's the correct term.

Lisa Vanahn [00:35:12]:

Here, she's in a wheelchair. I love that. We have an androgynous, non-binary card. I just love to think about pulling a card and being able to say, oh, that person kind of looks like me.

Lisa Vanahn [00:35:29]:

Just that idea. Okay, so I just pulled one. It's - I AM Becoming! Every day, I AM becoming more myself. I listen to my instincts and allow my becoming in each moment. This is so perfect with the idea of the virgin in the moment. So

[00:35:51]:

I just launched the Kickstarter. If you go on my Instagram page, Lisa Van Ahn, or lisavanahn.com, or to the I AM Initiative, those are my websites, and that's going on for the next 36 days.

Christopher [00:36:01]:

Fabulous. We'll link to all of those.

Lisa Vanahn [00:36:03]:

Yeah, that's cool. Love that. I appreciate it so much.

Christopher [00:36:08]:

Definitely. If Heather and I wanted to buy some of those. Where do we, where do we go? Yeah, same place?

Lisa Vanahn [00:36:14]:

Yeah, just go to the Kickstarter. I can send you the link to the Kickstarter. I just launched it last night.

Christopher [00:36:24]:

Congratulations.

Lisa Vanahn [00:36:24]:

I'm just excited about it. So, I'll send you the link to it for sure.

Christopher [00:36:29]:

So, how does that feel versus being punched in the face?

Lisa Vanahn [00:36:32]:

So good, right?

Heather [00:36:34]:

So good.

Lisa Vanahn [00:36:35]:

So good. I still kickbox. I love kicking, but I'm done and retired with the fighting, and that feels good. I feel done being punched in the face, but I like hitting stuff hard. I mean that.

Heather [00:36:53]:

Heck yeah. Heck yeah.

Christopher [00:36:56]:

Lisa, you are a ball of fire. You are a comet blasting through space. We love your energy.

Lisa Vanahn [00:37:04]:

Love that. Thank you. Comet blasting through space. That's cosmic.

Christopher [00:37:12]:

Thank you for your time. Thank you for all this information; information that's so valuable and helpful. We really appreciate you taking the time to visit with us.

Lisa Vanahn [00:37:22]:

Thanks for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate it.

Heather [00:37:25]:

So lovely to meet you.Thank you for all of your insights today.

Lisa Vanahn [00:37:28]:

Good to meet you, too.

Christopher [00:37:29]:

And you have been listening to the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch. Find us, Like us, and Share us. To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us @ virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And share us with people who are Defiantly Different, like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.