VBB 315: Gina Cloud - Do Women Define Bitch, or Visa Versa?

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

It's the season for wishes, and I have a wish. My wish is for every female, every woman in the world, to hear the conversation that is about to unfold. This conversation is about a word. A word used throughout history to dehumanize every human-born female. That word, of course, is BITCH. Joining us in conversation is Teacher, Life Coach, Speaker, and International best-selling author of W.O.M.A.N: A New Definition for Reclaiming the Feminine. We welcome back our dear friend, Gina Cloud.

Gina Cloud [00:01:02]:

Hello, Chris and Heather. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Christopher [00:01:06]:

Thank You for doing this, Gina. So, the reason I wish for every woman to hear this conversation is because, throughout history, women have been faced with a dilemma. Every baby girl born anywhere in the world, consciously or in survival mode, grows up having to work out her relationship with the. Should she hate the identity? Should she embrace it, celebrate it, champion it, curse those who use it against her, or hate herself for how it makes her feel? Gina, how would you advise on this? Like, that is a lot to take on.

Gina Cloud [00:01:45]:

You know what's really funny is, as you were saying, that something came to mind that happened yesterday and involved the word bitch. So as you know, I recently moved and one of my very best friends, she's a, she teaches tango, and she's got great taste in music. She's from Argentina, and I was missing her, and I was like, hey, Sylvia, would you send me some, you know, send me some, one of your playlists? It helps me to miss you less. So I'm listening to one of her playlists, and it's, it's like, it's got, it's a rap song, and I start hearing bitch, bitch, bitch, and it really upset me, and I was like, I can't, I can't do this because, it's the frequency of bitch I think we have to pay attention to, right? So the frequency of bitch, as I was listening to that piece of rap music, was derogatory and denigrating. And so, for me, it landed in my nervous system with, ugh, no, I don't want. This is not. This doesn't feel good. I don't want to listen to this.

Gina Cloud [00:02:41]:

There's the frequency of the bitch that I think, particularly when women are dealing with men of power, there's a frequency that comes into play that's actually labeled bitch. But it's just a woman in her strength and her power and her knowing, asserting that. And If a man were doing it, he wouldn't be considered anything other than a good businessman. So there's that frequency of the bitch that gets slapped on, you know, on women, and then there's this kind of esoteric, beautiful frequency, which I used to. When I taught this workshop to young girls, It was called the Sacred Facts of Life. And I would teach them to use language to empower themselves.

Gina Cloud [00:03:24]:

Take a piece of denigrating language and turn it around or reclaim it. Because, in essence, so much of the words that are used to describe us, like cunt is another one. It's a sacred word with an origin from a goddess. I would encourage them and say, you know if a boy calls you a bitch or someone calls you a bitch, say thank you! And they were all like, what do you mean? Bitch was the offspring of the wolf goddess Lupillas. So when you have this identification with it as something empowering, it doesn't matter what anybody else, how anybody else wants to use it around you. So, if we could teach girls from the beginning and women to reframe it to be a word of power in our feminine lexicon, that would be really, really healing.

Heather [00:04:10]:

I think that just hearing you speak about the different frequencies of the bitch, I think that resonates with so many people about how this word has been used to either, I feel, shame us into submission. Like any time that you're starting to stand your ground or fight for what you want to believe in or what your boundaries are like, oh, she's being so difficult. She's being a bitch. Very flippantly. It can happen often when you know you're going out of line from almost a proverbial status quo. But what I find interesting, too, is that this younger generation, you know, they've attached themselves onto what you're speaking towards, too, is being a bad bitch.

Heather [00:04:51]:

And to me, that's actually defying what people have said and making it. Yeah. How you want to show up in the world and that you're going to own your sexuality, you're going to own your personhood; you're going to own whatever it means for you to walk through the world in a way that you feel confident. And I think that reclamation has been very healing.

Christopher [00:05:17]:

Is it a reclamation when you take a word that has been used to denigrate you and make it your champion? Because women didn't create the word, the word was created by the opposite sex in order to control overall womanhood. So, can there be actual ownership of that word by women?

Gina Cloud [00:05:45]:

I do think so because I think it's our belief about ourselves or how we identify with what something means. For instance, like reclaiming language, we can talk about the "N" word. I'm from New Orleans. My birth certificate says colored on it. Most black people are offended by the word colored, whereas I said I love that word because I'm multicolored. I've got all these different flavors in me, and I love that word. I don't mind saying I'm a colored person, but a lot of people find that word offensive. So it's my belief about it. If I found that word offensive, I would walk through the world with a chip on my shoulder about that.

Gina Cloud [00:06:21]:

So I do think we can turn things on their head, reclaim them, and repurpose them to be of service or not of service to us. So I do think it's something that we have to be conscious about how we're using these words because words have so much power, you know, I mean, that's why, like, when I meet someone, I always want to get their name right, especially if it's an unusual name because your name has a powerful frequency that's connected to your frequency. So, with every word we speak, which, of course, is in the realm of magic, words are very purposeful and intentional, and they make a huge difference. So, I do believe that we can take those words, take them back, or just redefine them. And that's like, you know, with my book, Redefining Woman was the original title, but Reclaiming, I do believe, is something that we have the capacity to do. We just have to be really conscious about it.

Gina Cloud [00:07:28]:

And it's almost like it has to become a movement in a certain way. And I think with the younger generations, particularly Gen Z, and I guess it's Gen Alpha now, I don't know that they have any previous awareness of what these words meant to have a negative that they need to repurpose into a positive because they've grown up with a certain way of looking at it that doesn't necessarily have that frequency attached to it for them.

Heather [00:07:56]:

And I think that also when we consider women having more access to the autonomy and agency that they don't need to succumb to somebody who wants them to just solely cater to them or do their bidding or do what they want them to do, like. Like, as you're saying, Gina, that there's been less power around that word. I mean, I say that with a caveat, like, for some women, that's true. For others, they are very much still in the thick of that.

Christopher [00:08:28]:

I think some women still buy into the obedience that that word suggests for women. And they will live under those rules, those traditional rules because it saves them from being the bad girl.

Gina Cloud [00:08:43]:

But one of the things I think, as you say, is it puts them in a box. It's like, I don't want to be considered a bitch, so I'll go back into the box that I'm supposed to inhabit because I don't want to be labeled a bitch. So let me just keep in line. Let me not step out of line.

Gina [00:09:01]:

So I think there's that piece about it, and it feeds into the, you know, the be nice thing that we all as females grow up with. You know, rather than be clear or direct, you know, speak your mind and speak your mind with integrity. You don't have to be a jerk to somebody to speak your mind. And that's what successful businessmen do. That's why I said when I was talking about different frequencies of bitch. If I declare in a very calm but clear voice or an elevated voice even, it's not even about the tone, the sound of my voice, what I'm expressing and I were a man, it would be perceived completely differently. So I also feel like the word bitch is like a crack the whip, get back in the can cage kind of thing.

Heather [00:09:47]:

What are your thoughts? Gina on, because I mean, clearly there are elements of when someone is acting like a gender, regardless if they're being purposefully vindictive or emotionally inept, I'll say. Or that they really don't care about how their actions affect other people. And sometimes I think, like, the perception of somebody who's just being difficult or mean for being mean's sake is categorized as a bitch. So, I want to separate that part out of what I'm about to say. But when you think about the essence of the bitch as the one within each woman that is able to stand her ground and is able to not let her boundaries be broken. If you could just kind of paint a picture with us around, like, what that energy is to you, like, what it means to step into that sense of self that. That isn't going to hold you back from being your truest self because I feel like you embody that so well. And it's such a beautiful thing to witness.

Gina [00:10:56]:

Thank you. And it's one of those things I have to reflect on because somebody was asking me the other day, I was having a conversation, and she asked me, how did you get to be this way? And I said, you know, I was just born this way. I think it's just my gift. And you don't know something's your gift until you realize that most people don't do this thing that you do, and then you go, oh, oh, okay. And then, somehow, that's where you were also awakened to being a teacher. You know, I prefer teacher over healer, but you help people heal when you teach them to fish for themselves, so to speak.

Gina Cloud [00:11:32]:

You know, would Heather say that last part again about what you want me to do?

Heather [00:11:37]:

Yeah. Like, if you were to think about, like, the essence of the bitch, that is about women stepping into their authentic self and standing up for that self, how could you help other women kind of tap in or flex the muscle of that component of themselves?

Gina Cloud [00:11:54]:

Okay, okay. That came really clear this time. Part of it is in the flexing of the muscle which seems like a strength, is really how to surrender and be vulnerable in a lot of ways. Part of the reason that I know that I embody this is when there is a difficult moment that, for instance, in any relationship, you have conflict or you're, you know, with your boss, with your mate, with your friends, whatever, there comes a moment that in order to speak your truth, you have to become vulnerable enough to say it. You have to be able to say, hey, that thing that you did a moment ago or yesterday or whatever it is. I try to be very in the moment. That's one of the things for me is I try when something happens, and that's the scary part for most people because if you have a conflict with someone or an issue comes up sometimes, I kind of process things immediately in the moment. And I know that's not necessarily natural for most people, but again, this is why this is part of my gift. I will process it in the moment, and then I will want to talk about it with that person.

Gina Cloud [00:13:02]:

But even though I've been doing this my whole life, ever since I was a kid, literally, it's still a vulnerable moment when I know I'm going to open my mouth and say, hey, that didn't feel good. Now that's using my voice. That is a strength. Even though, at the moment, it feels really uncomfortable and it feels really vulnerable. So, to me, getting to that place where women can feel truly Free and liberated is about being able to speak your truth. And because we have been indoctrinated into a system that says, only say it if it's nice, don't do this, don't do that, don't speak with authority. Don't challenge things.

Gina Cloud [00:13:46]:

We're not being true to ourselves because we're afraid of being labeled. And bitch is one of the many labels that we get. So I think teaching women to have the courage to be soft enough to be vulnerable, to use their voice. That actually is the strength of that feminine frequency. And when someone realizes that you are. I guess it depends on the person; if it's someone that you know and love or that you have a rapport with already, some people can be absolute assholes in response to that vulnerability. But even in that, that becomes a moment for you to continue to stay true to yourself.

Gina Cloud [00:14:28]:

Whereas instead of having someone attack you when you say, hey, that, I don't appreciate you saying that. Let's just say it's your boss, and they say something really derogatory or upsetting.  Hey, that was disrespectful. I don't appreciate you saying that. You don't have to be soft about that. You can just, it's like a stop sign. No, that's not okay. And if they get aggressive back towards you, you don't have to engage with that, but you can stand your ground. And something as simple as turning around and walking away.

Gina Cloud [00:15:15]:

It's like when my daughter was little, and I wanted to explain to her how energy worked. And we were talking about anger, and I said, it's like playing catch. I said, here's a ball. This is anger. Label it whatever emotion you want. Here's a ball. I'm angry. I've got a ball of anger. I throw it to you. You catch it. Now you've got the ball of anger, and we're going to keep throwing it back and forth. We're going to have a fight, and it's going to keep going. But if someone throws you their ball of anger, and you leave your hands at your side and let it roll past you, you just made a choice not to engage with that. So, as simple as walking away in the moment, especially if you feel like you might end up saying something you regret, which is very different from I'm going to be nice. Very, very different thing, right? Let me think about this for a minute.

Gina Cloud [00:15:48]:

I think a woman's voice is truly, if not her greatest asset, one of very few. I mean, we have many, but one of the top three greatest assets. And it's the thing that I've noticed in my work that women struggle with the most because there's just this absolute need to be accepted and to be, you know, admired or praised. And we have to give that to ourselves, you know, and it's hard because it's easy, or what's that expression? It's simple. But it's not easy because people will put labels on you, they will judge you, and they will talk about you behind your back. So it has to be a place inside of you that says, I care more what I think about me than what anybody else thinks about me. And it's not easy, you know, and sometimes I've, you know, as I've walked through my life, I know that sometimes people think I can be pretty fierce.

Gina Cloud [00:16:51]:

I've got the goddess Kali in my life in a big way, you know, and Kali's all about getting rid of anything that's in the way of love. They don't understand that. Kali's all about love that everything, if anything, that's in the way of that, she's going to lop off its head, or she's going to call it out. And so our voices as women, I think, are really, really critical to us being able to achieve that, Heather.

Christopher [00:17:15]:

The word vulnerable is a word we really appreciate in this program. I think that, and you can tell me what you think of this. But women are conditioned to be afraid of consequences?

Gina Cloud [00:17:36]:

Sure.

Christopher [00:17:36]:

If you do speak up, if you do, stand your ground. There was a time when those consequences could mean your life or it can mean your livelihood. It has changed over time, but the mindset of those consequences remains and is a big trigger for that.

Gina Cloud [00:17:57]:

Yeah, and I think that it's still kind of that way. I mean, less so about losing your life, but you can be demoted. You can, I mean, and we're talking in the workplace where I think in my work, I've noticed it's one of the hardest places for women to take a stand and to find their strength is within the workplace. Because still a lot of their bosses, you know, are men.

Gina Cloud [00:18:23]:

When it's in a workplace where there are more women involved, that can even still happen because there are a lot of women in the workplace who are taking on what I call in corporate America, the patriarchal workplace because there's certainly within the stratum of the workplace in corporate America. It's very, very, very Patriarchal. And so I think that in those kinds of environments where the women that are in power had to really fight to get where they are, they're actually embodying those negative patriarchal principles and they're foisting them on their female co-workers. So I've seen that. And that's just really. It's like, wow, you know, you've been so scrubbed of your feminine frequency and essences.

Gina Cloud [00:19:09]:

Because I think women make far better bosses. We're much more collaborative. We're better at listening to the people that we might be in charge of, and we're more about wanting things to work smoothly and less competitive. More collaborative and less competitive. But there are a lot of women in the patriarchal systems and workplaces that are very much patriarchal in the patriarchy. But I think those things can still happen. And women are kept in check through fear, through the fear of what might happen, the fear of what could happen, the fear of what has happened historically, you know, and a lot of times you don't realize that the jail that you think you're in, the door is wide open, and all you have to do is walk out because that's how deep the indoctrination is. That's how far into our beingness and our consciousness have become.

Gina Cloud [00:19:59]:

So it's about sort of realizing I can walk out that door anytime I want to. Is it going to be easy? No. But it is that simple.

Heather [00:20:07]:

I heard. And that's just so well said. And it's bringing something else to mind for me that, you know, we've got, as Christopher said, almost this intergenerational weight of what standing your ground would have meant for a woman over the ages and even into today. And then I think that that kind of bleeds into a fear that is, I think, somewhat survival, as Christopher had said, and somewhat behavioral in that when you stand your ground and you open up the doors for potential conflict, that there is extreme uncomfortability in not being able to handle that interaction or where that interaction could go. Am I going to lose a friend over standing my ground? Am I going to lose my job? Am I going to lose my partner? It's all like a very kind of scarcity loss sort of mindset at the core. So, to me, what I think would be helpful, and I'm sure your courses have touched on this, is to really help women sit in the uncomfortability of conflict. And I say that with the caveat of a conversation.

Heather [00:21:14]:

Christopher and I had a meeting with another guest who I loved so much because this guest spoke about that. Often in our relationships, we're almost fed that we want to, like, keep the peace and, especially for women, keep things cohesive and together. And he spoke towards within any relationship, what conflict? Like the benefits of almost healthy conflict?

Gina Cloud [00:21:41]:

Absolutely.

Heather [00:21:42]:

There needs to be a time of stability, peace, togetherness, and wanting to work together. But then the conflict is really having two people or two energies show up with the things that they need and have a back and forth. Maybe that's about achieving a new level, personally, because someone has called you out on something that you're doing or where you could grow. There's a lot of different directions to take. But I think, like, realizing the necessity of conflict, not in a way that's hurtful or abusive, is a game changer that we're not very exposed to as women.

Gina Cloud [00:22:20]:

Yeah, to me, it's how you deepen intimacy in any relationship is your willingness to expose yourself and expose whatever has hurt you, upset you, made you angry. And before I lose this thread, because we were talking about the workplace, I think one of the things that women need help with is they might take the first step and say to, you know, a co-worker, boss or whoever or partner, it doesn't have to be at work. We were just talking about work. But it can be any situation. And when you bring up the thing that you wanted to bring up, you think at that moment, oh, wow, I did it. And then the interaction starts, or the conflict clicks in, and it kicks in. It can be like a deer in the headlights now; what do I do? So role-playing is really helpful. Whereas, like, if I'm talking to someone and say, okay, who's the conflict with? Okay, it's with my husband, my boyfriend, my child, my boss, whatever, okay, I'm going to be that person.

Gina Cloud [00:23:14]:

Or no, actually, I do it the other way around. I'm going to be you. Because they know what that other person would say back to them. So they tell me, you know, what, what to start with, and then we role play, and I show them how they could respond to those things in a way that would allow them to work through it and become more empowered. Because I think that it takes so much energy for women to get to a point where we can even open our mouth and just say the thing that opens the door, that now the door is open and you're like, oh, oh my God, now what do I do? I really believe that if we can choose our friends, you know, consciously so that when there is a conflict, and you have to bring something up to that person because it's hurting you, or it's interfering with the relationship, or it's making you hold yourself back, that, to me, is one of the worst things we do in life, is to not be who we are, that we start shape-shifting because we're afraid of the vulnerability of conflict.

Gina Cloud [00:24:14]:

And I truly see it as the vulnerability of conflict because in order to open up the door and to work on these things that are a problem for us in our relationships, there's a lot of vulnerability involved in that. Conflict is not, you know, to me, what is that? What is that other word? I always use this word, and it just went right out the window. To face, confront - confrontation, it's just to face something, right? But we've imbued that word with aggression like it's a fight. But to confront just means to face something. And if you face it, yeah, it can be scary. And it's like, well, now what do I do? And how are you going to react? And I don't know how you're going to react. So, a lot of women also won't open the door because they don't know how that person's going to react. And they're afraid of what the reaction will be. So they suffer in silence, and they keep suffering in silence.

Gina Cloud [00:25:10]:

And I really see that that's a place in women's lives where our lights go out because we don't allow that. The need is that we have to be heard, to be seen, to be loved, to be part of something that evolves. We don't realize how important that is for the health of our souls. And I just watch, like, the lights get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, and then we're like walking zombies, but we're not alive, you know, and it goes back to this whole, you know, don't be a bitch, don't be a bitch. You know, get back in the box, be nice, you know, don't have any needs.

Gina Cloud [00:25:56]:

And even, like, as a mother, I'll never forget this. A mentor of mine told me when my daughter was really little, she said, if you. And it took me. It took my brain a minute to process what she had just said. She said, if you teach her to be number one, that she's number one, she'll learn to be number two. That means if you put anyone in front of you, even your own child, you're teaching them that their needs don't matter over anyone. Everyone else's needs matter more than theirs. And that's. In some people's minds. That's a selfish perspective. It is not.

Gina Cloud [00:26:20]:

It's the most selfless thing you can do, and it is to honor this first because then you're the best version of yourself. And, oh, my God, the people in your life get so much more.

Christopher [00:26:31]:

But if you. If you read the Historic Book of Feminine, that's the reverse.

Gina Cloud [00:26:37]:

Absolutely. And that's why it's so hard culturally, even in this modern age. It's so hard because the roots go so deep into the indoctrination and the brainwashing.

Christopher [00:26:47]:

So, yeah, a couple of things are. One is that we had a guest, Heather and I, who gave us this profound line: women need to learn to be better Bitches. With that inspiration, Heather and I actually want to put together a course on teaching those principles. That's a great idea, and we would love for you to be one of our mentors on that.

Gina Cloud [00:27:17]:

Oh, my gosh. I would love that. And I like the way that your guest said that because the way that it was said was totally an empowering use of that word. You could feel it. I could just feel it when you said it. It's a good thing, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Christopher [00:27:33]:

This series helps us concentrate on our thoughts and how we want to approach them because it is critical. We believe in all the things we've just spoken about. It is so deeply ingrained. It's not an overnight fix. And the women who come through this, typically on our. On our shows, these are women who have gone through the darkest night of the soul, and they have nothing to lose. So they bring out that pitch, that courage, whatever it takes.

Gina Cloud [00:28:05]:

Survival.

Christopher [00:28:06]:

Yes, exactly. You know, Exactly.

Gina Cloud [00:28:08]:

And, you know, Chris, I wanted to say this, too, because there's a subculture that thinks that in order for women to be in our power, we have to denigrate or put men under our thumb the way we've been under the thumb of patriarchy. And I'm not a fan of that because there are so many good men out there, like you, champions of women. But there's also been a boot on the neck of men in the last few years. I'm not a fan of the radical feminist movement that's out there because I don't believe that it's doing service to women at all.

Gina Cloud [00:28:46]:

And it's doing a disservice to both women and men, in my opinion, because it's gone too far. And a lot of it, I think, is very man-hating. We need to come together. But I do believe that it's women stepping into our power that's going to save what this mess of a planet is right now. It's the feminine frequency being reclaimed by each and every woman and acknowledging it within herself, remembering it within herself, activating it within herself, using it out there in the world. When we embody that out in the world, I believe that the men out there who are good respond to that because they know what their role is in relation to the feminine in the most empowered way. And going back to ancient times when we were a matriarchal culture, men can then really be of service to that in a way that also honors the masculine polarity.

Gina Cloud [00:29:41]:

But it's really time for our voices to be heard and for us to use them without shame or fear of reprobation and, you know, laughing at the labels that get flung at us.

Christopher [00:29:54]:

Love it.

Heather [00:29:55]:

Just beautiful. It has been such a joy to have you, Gina Cloud. Thank you for all of your wisdom. Every journey that we go on together in conversation is just. It takes me to new heights or new places in my mind and soul. So, just thank you so much, you guys.

Gina Cloud [00:30:14]:

I truly love you guys. There's just a resonance. It's making me tear up.

Christopher [00:30:25]:

Absolutely the same. Absolutely the same. For anyone who wants to hear more of Gina, episode 226 in episode 284 has been the same as this. It was just an absolutely beautiful conversation, deep conversation, rich conversation with our dear friend Gina Cloud.

Gina Cloud [00:30:46]:

Thank you both so much. Keep doing what you're doing because it's so needed and appreciated as you are.

Christopher [00:30:53]:

And you have been listening to the.

Gina Cloud [00:30:55]:

Virgin, the Beauty and the Bitch series.

Christopher [00:30:58]:

Absolutely. Find us. Like us. Share us, and come on back. We'll be talking more about this topic and delving a little deeper and wider as we go along. So, bring your friends. Let's have a party. To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us @virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Defiantly Different, like you.

Christopher [00:31:29]:

Until next time, thanks for listening.