VBB 309: Rissa Miller - Season Of The Witch!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

I can't say that I'm a big fan of Halloween, but who am I to rain on anyone's pumpkin patch? However, there is one character that is a staple at All Hallows Eve, an archetype associated with evil and darkness, and is almost always female, the witch. My curiosity is to learn how women came to be branded with this character. So, to explore that connection, we reached out to Tasseographer, Capnomancy, and Divination Practitioner Rissa Miller to help shed some light. Risa. Welcome back to Virgin Beauty.

Rissa Miller [00:01:01]:

Thank you both so much for having me back. It's wonderful to talk to you again.

Christopher [00:01:06]:

So, just to be clear, Rissa's name was top of mind when this topic came up between Heather and I. However, we don't want to give any impressions that you have anything to do with witchcraft, even though your work is truly magical. Maybe that's a good place to begin. How does what you do relate to magic and the supernatural, if at all?

Rissa Miller [00:01:27]:

Okay, so first of all, I'm not afraid of the word witch, and I've certainly been called worse. I think there's a lot of baggage hung on the word witch, and it comes down through centuries, actually, of stereotyping and archetyping. And it's really fascinating to put it into perspective that just because someone does divination work, are they a witch? Does someone do reiki? Does that make them a witch? If you collect crystals, are you a witch? Some people would say yes to all three, and some people would say no to all three, and there are a million shades of gray in the middle. I think that the definition of what a witch is has changed dramatically over time. I mean, if we went back to the 16 hundreds, the Catholic Church would tell you that witches are wild women who must be stopped from cavorting with the devil in the woods and plotting with demons. And that's simply not the way that most people perceive a witch anymore. Some people, sure, but it's time to catch up, I think.

Christopher [00:02:48]:

So, your experience and your definition of that word or that concept, how do you see it and how have you come to learn about it?

Rissa Miller [00:03:03]:

So, going back in my own life, I was raised in a family that was pretty nontraditional. My father had lived with natives and spent time in their spiritual circles, so that was already pretty nontraditional. It was my mother who gave me my first deck of tarot cards. It was never presented to me as an evil or dark thing. So, when I got a little older and learned about the burning times and witch trials, I was actually quite surprised. I didn't understand why these things that didn't seem all that strange or evil to me had caused the deaths of thousands and thousands of people, mostly women, but also men, children, and animals. And, I mean, seriously, in Salem, why were they hanging dogs? Why did that happen? But superstition is a powerful tool to control people, honestly. And the way that I have come to understand the baggage associated with the word witch and what a witch actually is are different. So the baggage associated with the word witch is all about fear and control, and it's about fear of a powerful woman and trying to control her and what a witch actually is.

Rissa Miller [00:04:30]:

That's a pretty broad definition because witches can encompass pagans, druids, and Wiccans. It can also encompass solo practitioners who simply believe in folk magic, folk remedies, or people who have nature-based faiths. That's a lot of people. And it's a rising number, especially as we came through the pandemic and people started to lose faith in traditional mainline religion, which simply wasn't giving them the answers or the comfort they needed. And this has actually been documented by The New York Times and USA Today. People started leaving these traditional faiths and moving more into nature-based faith. And there's another element as well, bringing people into the witchy practices.

Rissa Miller [00:05:20]:

That's the environment. So as more and more people, especially younger people, are reaching a point where they're like, we have to continue to live on this Earth. They are looking for a deeper connection to nature, and they're finding that in pagan faiths that base their religion on the wheel of the year, on the actual seasons, on the rotation of the Earth, of the moon, and the cycles of nature. So there are a lot of elements into what makes someone an actual witch and the stereotype of the sinister female witch, which can be a young, beautiful seductress or a scary old hag, but there's definitely the maiden mother, crone aspects of the traditional witch archetype. But honestly, those are cycles in all women's lives, and it doesn't make you a witch to be any of them, right? It should be totally fine to be at any of those places, and yet when you attach the broomstick and the hat, it changes everything.

Heather [00:06:33]:

I just love what you had to say there. And when I've done some digging into the origins of the word witch and just how things evolved prior to the witch hunts with women's medicinal healing properties, as you said, being so connected with our own cycles as women. With our menstruation and how we are just that one step closer to being in alignment with these cycles of nature, with these cycles of the moon that that power source and that connection to herbs and medicine and being able to heal in a world that was very quickly developing with monotheistic ideas of why the world worked the way that it did. I find it so fascinating to see the transfer from these powers and to be able to heal through understanding medicines, through herbs, as then being associated to, rather than the healing properties that they were associated to them. The opposite of what these monotheistic religions were wanting to uphold. And obviously, control of women's bodies was one of the things that was on the drawing board. What do we do with these wild women who have these powers to do things? And so the connection between women's wisdom, ancient wisdom, and the knowing that comes in being close to your cycles and the cycles of nature, being connected to Satanic or to evil, right, as a way to say, this is not of the light, it is not of what this male god wants, and it should be feared. It should be feared because it is the opposite of what we know to be divine truth.

Rissa Miller [00:08:37]:

Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting that when you bring up Satan, Satan became a big part of the witch hunts, satan, and demons. And what's fascinating is that before Christianity, there was no Satan; there was no Hell. Different religions had Underworlds, but it wasn't considered an unnatural part of life to die. Obviously, nobody gets out alive, right? So, there wasn't all of this fear associated with it. But fear is a great way to control the masses, and it's something that many of the current mainline religions tried to use at different points in time to gain control over unruly people in general. So that said, women especially seem to be a target. Right before the witch trials and the burning times in Europe began, there was a book called, basically, the Hammer of Witches.

Rissa Miller [00:09:40]:

They used to go after women, but before, they had the Hammer of Jews that was used to go after Jews. So the books are actually very similar, but they just go after different people. I don't think they actually stopped going after Jews, to be totally honest. I think that that still happened even while they were going after the witches. I mean, then when you get to like King James, he went after everybody. He was just an interesting guy and he didn't like anybody that wasn't just like him, basically. So if you weren't just like him and you didn't agree with every single thing he said, you were probably going to die. But that said, the power that women held had to be controlled.

Rissa Miller [00:10:28]:

And calling somebody a witch was a great way to do it. And it would destroy her family, her home, her livelihood. And we just can't have these women out being independent, making money, doing things without a male to speak for them, without a patriarchal voice to rule them. And women who could heal with herbs, who were midwives, it's not like some guy was like, I want to step in and do that work. Give it to me, I'm going to deliver the babies, I know what to do. It wasn't even like that. These poor women who were doing important things for their community would suddenly be accused of witchcraft and killed or shunned. And that role was then empty in their village or their town, and other women suffered because of it when they needed a midwife.

Rissa Miller [00:11:29]:

It's actually a vicious circle.

Heather [00:11:32]:

It really is. And when I think of how easy it was if anyone was willing to call you, that, how quickly your reputation could be absolutely just stripped from you. So if you were seen as a problem in any way to your husband or your neighbors or to your community, how quickly it was to not only defame you but also to have you killed, that alongside. And we've had a little chat on this recently, especially when you think of the wisdom of some of the women who have done a bunch of different types of being there as a midwife, and they have the experience of their lives and what other women need. I could definitely see how that's a threat. They're carrying all this wisdom to embark onto other women to help keep them safe, to help keep them knowing of their place and their importance in the world, their gifts, and their talents. If they're cut off from believing in those talents and their kind of sacred essence, that's a lot easier to control.

Rissa Miller [00:12:48]:

It absolutely is. I thought of something while I was listening to you. My brain just went poof. Oh, I remember what it was now. So it wasn't even just if you made somebody mad or your herbal remedy didn't help their child. There were cases where there was a young woman who just didn't want to marry someone. So, a minute ago, he wanted to marry her, and now he's going to call her a witch. There were so many bizarre things like that.

Rissa Miller [00:13:22]:

Also, a lot of widows, many, many widows, were accused of witchcraft, and once they were out of the way, someone else could take their land and property. This was a super common story. It even happened here in America, like regularly in the 16 hundreds. If you get rid of the widow and defame her, her rightful heirs can't take the property, and someone else could swoop in and do it. And it's disheartening that people would even do that because a lot of the stories I'm thinking of, specific to women that I know what happened to from history, had worked hard. Many of them worked very hard and earned what they had, only to become a widow and then have someone take it from them and from their offspring, their children, just because they could, because of this word witch.

Heather [00:14:20]:

Such a powerful word, especially when you think of how easy it was to take everything from someone, absolutely.

Rissa Miller [00:14:33]:

You know, and it still carries weight today. It was just earlier this week that a post on Facebook was brought to my attention. There was a Catholic church that was literally crying war against a witch walk in just a small town in Pennsylvania, and people from all over the world were commenting on this post. I mean, it was getting thousands of comments. I couldn't even read them all. But basically, this church was saying, if you go to this small town's witch walk being put on by these a group of small businesses, they were basically trying to have an event to attract people into downtown to have fun, Halloween, family time. There were simple things like a jacko lantern carving for children, a costume contest, and Halloween-themed cocktails for adults. There was no mention anywhere of actual witchcraft, spell casting, or anything like that. And they said in the Catholic church's post there would be wicked spells and people casting charms.

Rissa Miller [00:15:42]:

And I was like, where's the disconnect here? And first of all, in America, we do have freedom of religion, so that should be fine if they want to do that. But, I kind of thought the church also spoke intolerance, but this was definitely intolerance. And I was also thinking, it's 2023; haven't we moved on from trying to persecute witches or people who want to have a fun time with their kids at a costume contest in a small town to support small business, even from an economic standpoint? I thought it was outrageous. In America, churches don't pay taxes, but small businesses do. So it's kind of like these businesses are in business supporting you in the community. Why would you tear down their event for anyhow? Anyway, it's just shocking to me that this fear, this incredible fear of women based on powerful women, is still a problem. We haven't really moved on.

Christopher [00:16:44]:

Yeah, it's interesting. We haven't moved on in the sense of our fear that we have, but it seems that pop culture has taken the witch and used her or that caricature to really reap some rewards with it. There are some pretty famous witch characters in Hollywood dramas that have come up. How do we equate these two things?

Rissa Miller [00:17:13]:

Well, again, I think that there are a lot of people who are embracing the archetype of the witch for all of its reasons, and especially young women who are just so done with being treated badly. They're just over it, and they've seen it happen to their mothers and they saw it happen to their grandmothers, and they're just not standing for it anymore. So when you see shows like Wednesday on Netflix or Sabrina, and they're breaking records, they're doing amazing things with these young witch characters now. And I'm all for it because they're super smart and empowered, and it's everything that the witch was feared for, but it's now being kind of put up as a model of how to be.

Christopher [00:18:06]:

It's interesting. So you don't see it as being mocked but used as a way of making economic gain?

Rissa Miller [00:18:17]:

Well, it probably is. I'm sure Netflix is making big fat dollars from that. Yeah.

Christopher [00:18:23]:

But you're okay with it being used in that light.

Rissa Miller [00:18:28]:

I'm okay with that for a lot of reasons. The first is that it puts the witch in a different spotlight and brings her into a new generation as a powerful and positive figure. Now, when you look back at Macbeth, those witches, they're scary. This is not something I really want to do when I grow up. I want to live in a hovel with my sisters. No, nobody says that. At least nobody I've ever met. But do I want to know a brilliant student and take no crap and also have magic like Wednesday or Sabrina? Yeah, that sounds great. Let's shoot for that.

Rissa Miller [00:19:15]:

The portrayal of the witch over time is definitely interesting through both movies and literature. And I think as newer writers are coming along, they're seeing her differently, and they're giving her sort of a different persona. And even the mages in, say, the witcher, they are the right hand of rulers. They are the power that helps the rulers win wars. They are like the trusted associate, and sometimes they're not so trustworthy in that show. But, all of that said, they are basically witches, but they're also healers and teachers, and they have a very interesting way of portraying the witches in that show. They're all very beautiful, no matter their age, but they do show women of different age groups, and they all have their own unique ways of holding power, and some of them are corrupted by it, as I'm sure human nature would make it like that anyway, and others are not, and they use their power righteously. So I think that some of the more modern witch portrayals definitely are giving the witch a new life in a different way.

Rissa Miller [00:20:38]:

Now, when you look at old stories like Baba Yaga, I do love the story of Baba Yaga, by the way. She is powerful, takes no crap kind of lady, and I love the stories where she's just like, oh, you're awful; you're going to be joining my fence of skulls. I'm sure everybody has felt that way about people from time to time, but she actually did it. But if you kept your word to her and you did what you said you were going to do or what she requested of you, and you were honorable, she would not have added you to her fence of skulls. Can you say that about everybody? No, not everybody keeps their word if you do what you promised. Old characters like that are much scarier, and they are portrayed as the ugly witch. The ugly old lady. That's definitely part of the witch stereotype. Look at  Disney; they definitely put that out there.

Rissa Miller [00:21:40]:

Definitely put that out. I do love the remake of Maleficent with Angelina Jolie because they gave Maleficent a heart. They made you understand where she was coming from and why she was angry. She wasn't just a sociopath because she was angry because she had been betrayed and her heart had been broken, and she fell in love then with Aurora despite it. And when true love's kiss came, it was from Maleficent, not from the boy. And I do love how they changed that story.

Heather [00:22:14]:

Just hearing what you have to say there, especially around women, younger women, kind of wanting to and know, arguably pop media wanting to kind of reclaim the view of the witch, maybe. Because right now, what's selling is that women are so done, as you've said, about being the carpet for generations, to just have the mud dragged on them. And something that I was chatting with a friend on recently, kind of in parallel conversation to this, is whether these pagan religions really uphold the concept of Mother Earth or mother healer or divine feminine deity, sometimes in multiple forms, sometimes in one form, and then also God the Father. And that this balance of seeing both entities as a deity is very important to people's sense of balance, to understanding different energies in our world, different energies in ourselves. And so I said to her, wow, wouldn't it be such a world? Or how different would some of our world be if it was the Mother, the Daughter, and the Holy Spirit?

Rissa Miller [00:23:35]:

Wow, that's an amazing question. That would be a very different world. I almost can't wrap my brain around that quickly. Maybe it's an idea whose time has come. Perhaps you should start. That sounds like a great whole principle for a book, too. But I think it would be a very different world because the whole divine feminine energy is completely different. It is an energy that is nurturing and patient and about creating, whereas a lot of the divine masculine is more active and doing and also holds destructive power as well.

Rissa Miller [00:24:22]:

So, within those old-school archetypes, they both have a place, and they're both necessary. And there's the need for creation, and there's the need for destruction, and there is the need for nurturing, and there is the need for action. But our whole society in Western culture is definitely built on masculine energy. And it would be interesting. I mean, would we nurture artists and value them more? Would we think that nurses were as valuable as doctors? I don't know. Maybe.

Christopher [00:25:00]:

The thing is that we seem to always want to swing from one end of that pendulum to the next. And I love what you say; it's a balance of both. I mean, Heather and I spent the whole summer talking about the Barbie movie and how what a world looks like when you do have one. It doesn't matter which side of that pendulum you go on; you're going to have an imbalance either way, right? So I really love what you say about how we have to embrace and look forward to balancing ourselves, our societies, and our world. On these two sides of what we are and where our powers lie. I really enjoy that you bring that to the forefront.

Heather [00:25:44]:

And I think just building on what Christopher said, I say what I just said there, not in hopes of creating a world that is one-sided, but just as it did with the Barbie movie. To hear kind of almost how outlandishly accepted it is for us to hear the one way and then to hear the opposite, just how it hits you smack in the face.

Rissa Miller [00:26:10]:

It sure did me when you said it. I was just like, wait, I don't even know how to respond to that.

Heather [00:26:17]:

The first time I said that, it smacked me right in the face. But just again, Christopher and I both really believe in, and it sounds from your words that the whole point is to get to a place of balance and to truly see both energies, both people, all genders, on this more equal footing. Anyways, my words are just to try to call out how one-sided it is.

Rissa Miller [00:26:47]:

Well, I would definitely agree. And it's become a normal way of seeing. It's all about your lens, right? It's what you're looking through. And so many of us have been looking through the same lens for a very long time. It was the lens we were handed, the lens we accepted, and we didn't know there might be other ways to see as well.  Occasionally, I stumble into them. And just now, Heather, when you handed me that new lens, I went, oh, I don't even know how to look through this, but I'm settling into it now. I'm okay, honestly. When we were speaking just now, this might even sound a little witchy.

Rissa Miller [00:27:29]:

I was thinking, in the Tarot deck, about how every card has a balance. There's an Emperor card, but there's an Empress card, there's a Magician card, but there's also a High Priestess. And no matter how you look at it, if you get a very unbalanced reading, it's super clear to someone who understands the cards that what you need is the opposite. Or if you're swaying very hard into the masculine energy, your reader will say it's time to sit back into your feminine energy a little bit more if you want to see this thing through that you're asking me about. And sorry, there's my witchy lens, as I would say, explaining one way that can very easily be seen as a simple way to explain that kind of situation.

Heather [00:28:20]:

I appreciate that because I've had readings, and I didn't actually know; I haven't done a full dive into it. So, to know that there's a balance of the masculine and feminine in the cards.

Rissa Miller [00:28:32]:

Even historically, there always was. Even the very first Tarot deck that we know about had a Pope, but it had a Pope-ess as well, which was not a thing. But the Visconti tarot had both. And the old decks. There's actually one at Yale University in their library. You can see if you ever get over that way.

Rissa Miller [00:28:59]:

It had female knights in it, which wasn't a real thing that I knew of. I mean, there couldn't have been very many anyhow, but they did indeed portray it that way and create that balance.

Christopher [00:29:12]:

It's fascinating to know.

Heather [00:29:14]:

I love that because Christopher and I have talked a lot about the essence of masculine and feminine, and I feel that in our world, whether in the spiritual world or in the structures that we live in, we have this short list of aspects or attributes that are masculine or feminine, and we kind of make this checkbox. The deeper I dive into understanding my own feminine and masculine, the more I've come to realize that almost any piece of me or the context around an action that I need to take could be masculine or feminine for what needs to show up at that moment. I think a lot of the time, we think of masculine as the protector, and I think that's a really important thing that a lot of men identify with in wanting to be a good man and to be there for others and to stand up for what's right. And sometimes I do feel that in my masculine when I'm in a protector sort of mode. But other times, I feel very much in my feminine and that I'm kind of this mama bear or maybe even a woman knight, a knight-ess, when entering into the requirements of that decision or rising to the circumstance. So, I'm glad you shared that because it helps me to go a little deeper into my understanding of masculine and feminine.

Rissa Miller [00:30:48]:

Of course. So I'm glad it was useful. I definitely felt called to bring it up. And it did seem to fit into the theme of witchiness.

Christopher [00:30:57]:

Yeah, I just think we've made a mess of these words and have attached so much baggage to them that we seem unable to see beyond the baggage. And the truth is lost. Completely lost.

Rissa Miller [00:31:12]:

Well, even if I think now about what happened in 1692 in Salem, Massachusetts, it's a very famous story, right? There was a hysteria. It was basically almost cult-like in the way they went after witches in that town. And it had nothing to do with real witchcraft, let's be honest. It had to do with basically hysteria. And it just caught fire. And 19 people ended up dead. Two dogs and over 100 people were questioned as witches in a village. And now, people, you can go into a craft store and find a happy Halloween Salem, 1692.

Rissa Miller [00:31:56]:

There was not a happy Halloween in Salem in 1692. It was a terrifying time, I'm sure, for men and women because both were killed. I mean, one man was pressed to death under rocks. Nobody was burned alive. That doesn't mean that it was easy time. Those people who suffered terribly. One of the things that I don't think is spoken about with Salem is that of all those people who died or were questioned, their families were affected, too. There were children left without parents.

Rissa Miller [00:32:29]:

There were families that were shunned. And you needed a community in a time like that to be able to have resources. So, the repercussions of an incident like that are not a Happy Halloween. And I sometimes have this little moment where I flinch, and I think, wow, I respect what the people there went through, and it is part of America's history. I personally think it's a shameful chapter, but I don't think it's worth celebrating every Halloween. I don't think it's something that I would want to hang on my wall and think it's festive because it's not. I don't think any of those women wore witch hats or believed that they were witches. It's sort of a miscommunication of what happened.

Rissa Miller [00:33:20]:

And it's part of that witch story that we now don't really know as a culture.

Christopher [00:33:26]:

We don't really know, or is it not happening? That's the thing that is scary about it is we don't know. It could be happening right now.

Rissa Miller [00:33:38]:

It could be. And I think there are parts of the world where it's only been a breath into the past. It's just a few years since voodoo practitioners in Haiti were blamed for natural disasters. And I think 50 or 60 of them were executed brutally because of a natural disaster. I don't think they caused it. I'm pretty sure that storm came because it was storm season, and yet those people were executed. And that's been definitely in the past ten years. So, the world still has this fear of this supernatural power.

Christopher [00:34:18]:

Which is why we admire you so because you are so in tune with the reality of powers beyond just our senses, and you're calm with it. I talked to you before we came on here about my background and why the supernatural is so frightening, right?

Rissa Miller [00:34:39]:

Yeah. So it's interesting to note a psychologist would probably tell you that we're born with two very legitimate fears. One is falling, and the other is loud noises. And every other fear is learned. Every other fear is something that we're taught. Now, the other two are basically about staying alive. They're about avoiding injury. But for everything else, we're taught to be afraid to put our hands on a stove for a good reason.  That's legitimate.

Rissa Miller [00:35:07]:

We're taught to look both ways across the street and to be afraid if there's a car coming. This is smart. But then we're also taught all of these other fears. We're taught to be afraid of what other people will say if we post something on social media they don't like. That's a taught fear. And are there repercussions? Maybe? Maybe not. Does it deeply matter? Maybe? Maybe not.

Rissa Miller [00:35:30]:

I guess it depends on how famous you are and what you do. But that said. I personally believe fear of the supernatural is taught. Now, does that mean that everything in the supernatural is light and love? No, I definitely don't think that's true. But I do think a lot of that fear is taught to us by various faiths, pop culture, and movies. Let's face it: the witches in Macbeth are not cheerful people. They're not chipper. They’re not the girl I dreamed of in I Dream of Genie, but she was definitely a supernatural entity, and she was super cute.

Rissa Miller [00:36:16]:

So, it is not the same, but yeah, no, I was not raised to be afraid. And I didn't think it was scary when there were ghosts or somebody talked about anything supernatural because I had a very different background, and it felt just like an okay or whatever even to me. It's my personal feeling that most spirit entities are neutral and curious, like most people.

Christopher [00:36:46]:

Most people, probably.

Rissa Miller [00:36:49]:

Like most people, they have their own thing, and they're not super worried about us. I feel like it doesn't change just because they're in a spirit form. They're still doing their own thing, and they might just happen to cross paths with you.

Christopher [00:37:01]:

On that happy note, because that's a happy way to end this, right? This could be a very dark and morbid topic, but I think that's the perfect way to slope it down.

Heather [00:37:16]:

I do want to ask Rissa because we had asked you previously, but just for listeners who may just be joining us for the first time for this episode. We've talked about what feminine means to you, but within the context of witches. Could you share your thoughts on that?

Rissa Miller [00:37:36]:

Oh, I would love to. That's a great question. I think in terms of what it means to be a female-identifying witch is that you have a sense of your own worth and power, and you are unafraid of it; you fully embrace it and express it fearlessly. And that is part of her mystique. And that is definitely part of why people have always been afraid of her.

Christopher [00:38:10]:

Put that into a poem. 

Rissa Miller [00:38:11]:

Maybe I will. Seriously?

Heather [00:38:14]:

That was golden.

Christopher [00:38:15]:

I'll send you the transcript. Make it a poem right away.

Heather [00:38:20]:

I want that up on my wall or something. I wanted to read this quote before we head off because it builds on what you just said there. And it says we are the descendants of the wild women you forgot. We are the stories you thought would never be taught. They should have checked the ashes of the women they burned alive because it takes a single wild amber to bring a whole wildfire alive.

Rissa Miller [00:38:47]:

I love that. That's fantastic. It's fantastic.

Christopher [00:38:52]:

Risa, you are a true goddess.

Rissa Miller [00:38:56]:

Thank you.

Christopher [00:38:57]:

And if people want to connect with you and learn more, you are a great teacher.

Rissa Miller [00:39:04]:

Oh, thank you.

Christopher [00:39:05]:

How do people connect with Rissa?

Rissa Miller [00:39:08]:

They can find me on my website, teaandsmoke.com. I'm also on Instagram and YouTube.

Christopher [00:39:14]:

Thank you for taking the time. As you can imagine, this is Risa's busy time of year. And we cannot thank you enough for taking time out to share this little space with us.

Rissa Miller [00:39:25]:

We really appreciate it, and it's absolutely a pleasure to see you both again.

Christopher [00:39:29]:

We'll continue because we want to keep you in our little family here.

Rissa Miller [00:39:34]:

I would love to be part of it going forward. Thank you.

Christopher [00:39:37]:

You've been listening to

Heather [00:39:40]:

the Virgin, The Beauty and the Bitch and the Witch.

Rissa Miller [00:39:45]:

Yes.

Christopher [00:39:48]:

Find us. Like us. Share us. Come on back. Let's keep talking. Let's keep learning.

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