VBB 307: What is Beauty?

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being Defiantly Different.

Intro [00:00:15]:

Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Intro [00:00:18]:

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

In case this episode ends up in a time capsule someday, let me share that our invited guests found themselves in the path of a tropical storm this past week, and safety was a priority. So, best wishes to them and their family and to everyone who had to manage nature's fury this week. Florida, we see you. So today, it's just Heather and me to finish off our four-part series on beauty. Now, here's a little time capsule on what we've learned so far. We learn how beauty has been made into a commodity. How beauty has become women's gilded cage in society. And how beauty is a weapon women use to compete with each other for economic or professional status.

Christopher [00:01:07]:

How young women feel the need to manipulate beauty to win love or affection. We learn how beauty is fleeting and cruel, especially to women. The truth of aging only makes women more vulnerable and desperate to invest eternally in cosmetics, surgeries, weight programs, or anything that promises to preserve beauty. Is that a nutshell, or is that a nutshell?

Heather [00:01:35]:

Ooh, what a nutshell, Christopher, I went through a roller coaster of emotions just as you were saying it.

Christopher [00:01:43]:

Do tell, do tell. What went through your mind if you were hearing all that?

Heather [00:01:48]:

Yeah, I mean, first off, how dismal and desperate it really all can feel. What I took away from some of the conversations you and I had with our guests is despite our awareness and our acknowledgment of just how much these massively profitable corporations and business models uphold the power of beauty, despite how much awareness you can have and how much knowing of investing into this one aspect of yourself is fleeting and perhaps even a fool's game. Just how pervasive it is in every single area of our life. And I think that also comes alongside the real power that it does still hold. So, to negate away from that knowledge, it just doesn't feel genuine or authentic to what women truly continue to experience. And, you know, I think that kind of where I've landed through all of that is working through loosening the tight grip of the shame that can come when you don't fit the standard, the beauty standard, the impossible beauty standard, but also letting go of the grip that holds the resentment that I hold for allowing that industry and you, these pillars of kind of success, that it still has a holding on me to release myself of the shame that I feel over that. But I think what really struck me the most in all of our conversations was when we asked each one of our guests what beauty meant to them because we got such a wide array of different responses. And I would really encourage people to listen to our show too.

Heather [00:03:47]:

To take pause to that question and think about what it means to them beyond the surface, beyond the expectations, because, you know, what you've articulated previously, Christopher, that I adore is really kind of what our first guest had to say as well, in that beauty is about attraction, and that attraction can be to things that put you into awe, whether that's nature's beauty or a beautiful characteristic that you see in someone else inside out, or perhaps even something about them physically, that you really adore. When I think about that definition of beauty, it kind of just brings it back into this kind of multicolor spirit spectrum of the positive, those things that can move people into being great or doing great things or being kind. Sometimes, I think that because we've allowed the beauty industry to take hold of what it's supposed to mean, we've lost sight of throwing the baby out with the bath water, which is something that is actually extremely precious to what it means to be alive in this lifetime.

Christopher [00:05:08]:

Well, I'll share something else that we've learned. We learned very, very young that beauty is something that is outside of ourselves, something that we encounter and filter through our five senses. Sight, smell, taste, touch, and hearing. We observe what we encounter. We enjoy it, we marvel at it, or, in the case of each other, other human beings. We rate it. We scale it. We cast judgments around the character of that person, and all of it is based on how they look in our first encounter with them. I think that we have perverted beauty when it comes to each other.

Christopher [00:05:54]:

I think our pure sense of beauty is what we see in nature, what we see around us, and what we see when a person does something kind for another. There is beauty that comes to us when we observe that. I think we still all have that raw connection to beauty. However, when it comes to each other, we have been conditioned to treat it otherwise, to judge it, to scale it, and then to make judgments on the human being because of beauty. I think that's where we've kind of gone askew and gone off the track where beauty is concerned.

Heather [00:06:39]:

I like how you just said that there because that really resonates with me. It's been a perverted sense of beauty, rather than tapping into, you know, what feels rawer and more innate than just actual feeling.

Christopher [00:06:57]:

I have a theory. It's a wild theory, as my theories often go. But I'm thinking, what if beauty is an emotion? We have apparently something like 27 emotions. Do we respond with those emotions that are internal? We get angry, and it's internal. It's an internal thing. We may get angry at something outside, but it starts within us. Anger, love, fear, they're all inside of us. They're all emotions.

Christopher [00:07:36]:

Why is beauty not the same thing? Why is beauty not something inside of us that we resonate with in the outside world? We hear a song, we hear poems that talk to our hearts, and we respond that it's beautiful. We see a sunset, and we respond, that is beautiful. It's all coming from within us. We're only reacting to the world as we see it, hear it, touch it, whatever that might be, whatever that tactile thing is. But it originates inside of us, not, does it not?

Heather [00:08:18]:

I think that what you're saying really is what the beauty industry has tried to, I think, mask us from for so long that it's something that you have to buy, use, reuse, and alter yourself in order to feel on the inside, to have it saturate beyond the skin level, deeper inside of you. And I think it goes back to one of those previous quotes that you had gathered, from our first guest, which I'd love if you could repeat.

Christopher [00:08:46]:

It is because I think women are beautiful because they are beautiful to themselves. They are agents of their own evolution.

Heather [00:08:55]:

Oh, that really, that really hits home. Because I think that when it's from the inside that you see about yourself, that's when these other grips don't have as much of a hold on you.

Christopher [00:09:08]:

That quote came from our first guest, Richard Prum, who was talking about birds. However, I translated his word from birds to women because it's one and the same to me. And the power that that line promises is unbelievable. If you can really believe it for yourself, I'll read it again. Women are beautiful because they are beautiful to themselves. They are agents of their own evolution. Think about that.

Heather [00:09:48]:

And for context, if you're listening to us for the first time, and you haven't listened to that episode, we were talking about the evolution of beauty and that when you look at something, some of the Darwinian theories on evolution, there's a lot around the survival of the fittest and that the strongest will survive. But one of the aspects that kind of got overlooked was what this professor wanted to bring out again in that beauty has played a very important role in evolution, but not for the promise of the strongest or the fittest, but just that beauty can exist because it deserves to exist for its own agency for its own essence.

Christopher [00:10:36]:

Darwin's theory had two parts. One part, survival of the fittest, is basically a mate, a female choosing a male because of what he promises for their offspring. That's basically what science ran with. But there was a second part to his theory of beauty for beauty's sake. And I'll read his words: beauty evolves for its own sake because it is beautiful. Darwin. So there was a second part to that, that sometimes we choose a mate simply because they turn us on. They're beautiful.

Heather [00:11:18]:

Sometimes beyond our better judgment.

Christopher [00:11:23]:

Right, but he left room for that. But the science of the time did not approve of that vision of his. And thus, you know, survival of the fittest became the benchmark for science and evolution moving forward. But yes, he did acknowledge that sometimes, whoa, that dude looks hot, or that girl looks hot. And, you know, damn the offspring.

Heather [00:12:00]:

Offspring be damned. I'm here for the here and now and what looks good.

Christopher [00:12:08]:

So basically, that's what he was getting at. Richard talked to us about that process, and it's interesting that I was reading The Beauty Myth, Naomi Wolf's book about women's perspective and what beauty has done to women over time. It's a very powerful book to read. But she also dismissed the second part of Darwin's theory about beauty for beauty's sake, which is kind of interesting.

Heather [00:12:41]:

I want to tie these pieces that you're bringing forward together when thinking about beauty as an emotion, beauty as being felt, when someone does something kind for another, or when you're in awe of something truly spectacular that you see or feel in this lifetime. Maybe not necessarily with the five senses, but something even deeper, you know, when you think of beauty for beauty's sake because of that and what kindness and that sort of muse of the loveliness that can be found in life. You know, I think that also applies to evolution, or the agency of evolution tied to beauty.

Christopher [00:13:27]:

Yes. I don't know if it's a problem or an issue. I'm not sure how to phrase it, but it's how do we get ourselves to get off the tracks of having to present ourselves as beautiful or as beautiful as possible in order to be taken either seriously or to be given an opportunity or to just be liked by others? How do we get ourselves focused and refocused on our behavior, our attitude, how we treat the world around us, and how we look at ourselves and value ourselves outside of this narrow corridor of the way that we need to present ourselves in order to be loved? Basically.

Heather [00:14:22]:

Isn't that the big question? Because it's how you see yourself and how you. But it's also how people see you and treat you based on these pedestals that we've put it on. So, I mean, when I've really seen women break free of these. This narrow corridor, as you've called it, has really been a lot of deep work to not allow other people's perceptions of you based on something that's ever fleeting to be the defining factor of how you move through the world. How do you believe that you deserve certain opportunities, affection, or love? Regardless of what's on the surface, you walk through the world with confidence in your worthiness beyond these things that have been sold to us.

Christopher [00:15:21]:

And this is not to say that people should just wake up in the morning and go out into the world.

Heather [00:15:30]:

Our one guest room told us not to do that.

Christopher [00:15:37]:

However, when you are in front of that mirror, who are you doing it for? What is your focus when you are getting yourself into a state of feeling like a beautiful person? Is it focused in, or is it focused out?

Heather [00:16:00]:

I feel like that would be a good practice even to kind of step into some of this work to write down some of the attributes that aren't physical that you find beautiful in yourself or characteristics that you like in others, or perhaps even something that brings you into a state of adoration of the beauty in the world just to really start to take a look at what you want to cultivate and focus on. You know, I did do a practice way back when in a different lifetime. I feel now that it's a lot more surface-level, but it was just around the healing of body image, and it was writing a list of things that you love about yourself physically. And for a lot of women, even that list is very short and very hard to think about. So I think there's healing on multiple fronts when it comes to cultivating that sense of self.

Christopher [00:16:58]:

I think we should do a workbook. There you go.

Heather [00:17:01]:

Workbook.

Christopher [00:17:02]:

The VBB Beauty Workbook.

Heather [00:17:04]:

Yes.

Christopher [00:17:08]:

Watch for that. Coming to you soon. The VBB Beauty Workbook.

Heather [00:17:14]:

I'm digging it. I would definitely. I would have to come back to it again and again, I think, just to really work on this part of myself, or parts, I guess, multiple.

Christopher [00:17:26]:

Yeah. I was thinking about, like, okay, I'm a heterosexual dude. I love women. But I had an episode one time in my life with a man crush, and it was many years ago. I was still in Vancouver, working in the music industry. I spent most of my life in arenas and bars and whatever, but I was in a GM place at the time, and I was in the bowels of the building doing a show, walking through the hallways there. And in the distance is this empty hallway. In the distance, I saw a figure approaching me.

Christopher [00:18:11]:

And as it got closer and closer and closer, my jaw dropped lower and lower and lower. It was this physique of a man that I had never seen before in the flesh. It was like a bronze Adonis in the flesh, walking towards me. There was a wrestling event going on. So he had on his shorts and just his wrestling shoes. That's all he had on. And he kept walking closer and closer, and he walked past me and was like, oh, my God, that is beautiful. That is one beautiful man.

Christopher [00:18:49]:

I didn't know who it was at the time, but a few years later, he kept showing up on my TV and on the big screen. It turned out to be Dwayne Johnson, The Rock.

Heather [00:19:04]:

Wow. I can see the. Why are you being Edward, my goodness? Being that close up and personal. Yeah. He is a beautiful Mandev, and he's so tall. You can't be in awe of him. And muscular.

Christopher [00:19:27]:

So it's. I mean, you know, the beauty thing, the sexual attraction, it doesn't have to be that. It can be just seeing something that is. Nature has put it together in a way that it just brings awe out of you, and you just appreciate it for what it is in that moment.

Heather [00:19:46]:

I find that very refreshing. Christopher and I have a lot of my guy friends who have similar stories, and I think that it's just. It's uplifting for me to hear because it just breaks down what you're supposed to allow yourself to be in awe of, to just really see something that brings that out in you.

Christopher [00:20:09]:

Yes. And to allow it to, nature gives us an opportunity to see absolutely whatever that might be, whatever that marvel is in the world, and to absorb it and just enjoy it for what it is. Not judge it, not try to break it down, not try to own it, not try to do anything about it, just to enjoy it. I would. I would recommend to men, when they see women who bring that kind of juice into their lives, to not try to necessarily engage it, even just to allow it, and to enjoy that moment, that nature has given you something, to just bring all your senses alive in one instant and enjoy that beauty.

Heather [00:21:02]:

Well, I think that this workbook is really going to be something to elevate the parts of yourself that can replenish you and help you see that feeling that Christopher just talked about, to feel it in yourself.

Christopher [00:21:22]:

Absolutely. It's within you. And sometimes it resonates outside, and we connect to that route, to that resonance, and it's beautiful.

Heather [00:21:32]:

Dare I ask you, Christopher, what we ask our guests? What does beauty mean to you?

Christopher [00:21:38]:

I think it's discovery. To me, there's so much about ourselves we don't know until it just flows out. And then you have to sit and ponder, what was that? What happened to me that made me resonate? I listened to music. And your heart just absorbs. Absorbs and bursts. Because something is so resonant with you that it is so beautiful that all you can do is sit there and wonder about it. What is that? What is that? There's no real word for it. There's no explanation for it.

Christopher [00:22:29]:

So, to me, it's just that. It's just this discovery of these emotions that overwhelm you and make you feel so natural and pure that it is just.

Heather [00:22:44]:

It's uplifting because there's enough hardship in the world. So, things that bring that out in you are really gifts.

Christopher [00:22:52]:

Yeah. To live with that, to really be grateful for that. Truly grateful. And what about you? What does beauty mean to you?

Heather [00:23:04]:

Wow. Getting asked the question of our guests, I think, based on the discovery that we've gone through together over these last couple of episodes, but ultimately also the podcast as a whole, because something that I liked around what our guests had to say was there's like an interaction between what's being witnessed and the witnesses. And to me, it's like the sunset will exist and be beautiful, whether or not somebody's there to see it. The existential question, for sure. Some would say that's not true. So, to me, there is something between the relationship of the viewer and the viewee. But to me, like, to make that one is part of almost the puzzle of beauty. And for me, bridging those two things together is to be within myself and be both. It's like that awe of being what you can see in yourself, but it's also part of you.

Heather [00:24:19]:

I need to flesh it out a little bit more. But it's certainly predominantly around aspects of life that can move you into something better and something positive and uplifting and really be the wonder of what's created in this lifetime.

Christopher [00:24:39]:

So isn't that where the power is to be both the viewee and the viewer?

Heather [00:24:45]:

Isn't it in a world where so many women feel that they are being viewed, being rated, being ranked, being under the male gaze, if you will, to bridge not being the object, I guess? And there's something extremely freeing in that.

Christopher [00:25:09]:

Yes. And I mean, that's the point of these conversations, is to delve into what's under the surface, what drives us, what has manipulated us, what has guided us into the things that we think that we know. But do we really? Do we really know?

Heather [00:25:29]:

We're about to know more with the Beauty handbook.

Christopher [00:25:35]:

I do want to thank Richard Prum, Barbara McBean, and Beth Hilbrand for their contribution to this series. They really took us in really interesting directions on this topic, and we really appreciate their participation.

Heather [00:25:52]:

It was such a joy to have each one of them on, and each of them brought something so unique to this conversation. So, if you haven't checked it out already, please check them out because each conversation really was illuminating.

Christopher [00:26:05]:

And be prepared because come December, the equinox is going to be the Bitch coming at you. Guns blaring, horns out, teeth bared.

Heather [00:26:20]:

Taking crap from nobody, teeth bared. We're going to get to know the bitch in a whole new way.

Christopher [00:26:26]:

Absolutely. Between now and then, there's lots to talk about and lots to get into. So please come on back. You know what? Please reach out to us. Our website gives you an opportunity to leave a voice message if you want or type us up a message however you want to reach us. It's all there on our website, virginbeautybitch.com. So, till then, you have been listening.

Heather [00:26:50]:

To the virgin, the beauty and the fetch.

Christopher [00:26:54]:

You want to find us. You want to like us. And most of all, you want to share us.

This is Christopher and Heather.

To become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Defiantly Different, like you. Until next time, thanks for listening.

Christopher [00:27:25]:

I’m Christopher. I’m Heather