VBB 300: Annie Izmirliyan - Turning Betrayal Into Abundance!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

A life fulfilled versus a fulfilling life. Which are you living in? And do you realize there's a difference? To live a life of fulfilling expectations requires social validation. Get educated, graduate, start a career, fall in love, get married, build a home, have children, and wait for your Hollywood ending. How many women commit their lives to this script only to find that life has other plans? Annie Izmirliyan can certainly speak about a life "fulfilled" that doesn't end as scripted but also about creating her own fulfilling life. Welcome, Annie, to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Annie  [00:01:07]:

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you guys and to share in the message that your podcast is really helping so many people understand.

Christopher [00:01:18]:

Thank you so much. It's great to have you, Annie. Now I want to ask you, was there a time when you felt that all the boxes for a fulfilled life were checked? You know, you had a successful career that spans 20 years in wealth management and financial planning, a comfortable home, marriage with a husband, a beautiful child, everything but the walk into the sunset. I believe your story is one of resilience, one that many women can identify with and hopefully find motivation after hearing it from you.

Annie  [00:01:50]:

Well, you're right. I've been 20 years in financial services in Canada, and I've helped thousands of individuals, couples, and families with their financial planning goals and thinking of all the what-if scenarios and all the potential outcomes and what might be the best one for them. I've also coached and mentored hundreds of advisors on their own practice and how to navigate those circumstances with their clients. I've been called ambitious and bold, and one feature cover article called me a maverick. And I was like, that's cool. You know, it's so nice to get to this point where  I've studied year after year for almost 20 years to get all those fancy letters after my last name and be able to help others with and consider all possible scenarios and plan for everything. I'm actually a natural planner in life. I'm always considering what the best way to do that is, and the only way to do that is to look at all the potential paths.

Annie  [00:03:04]:

And yet, there was a time when things were not always as they appeared. I clearly and distinctly remember a cold November morning in 2016. My two-year-old was in her room, sleeping away, and there I was with my then-husband's phone. I had never done anything like this before. Never had a need to. Why would I? So there I was, shaken in my boots, so to speak. I'm in my PJs and just looking at the phone. I just swipe. It opened up, and I found messages and pictures that no partner ever should. My heart was beating so fast I had to fall to my knees on the ground in my room.

Annie [00:04:21]:

I was alone, and I thought, I'm gonna die. Have you ever experienced when your heart beats so fast that you can't even count the beats? And you feel like everything's just falling apart around you? And in the still and quiet of that morning, it felt like my ears were on fire from the rush of the blood going through my head, down to my heart, and down to my feet. And I thought, what am I going to do? What are people gonna think? What will they say? Nobody knows what I'm going through. Nobody knew what I'd been through because I was so good at putting up a front and looking like everything was great and fine. It was that facade of, like you said, having the husband and the child and the home and a great career. Meanwhile, I felt like the curtains had opened. The lie was revealed, the lie of my life that I was living. And shaking so hard.

Annie  [00:05:56]:

I thought, what do I do now? I did nothing at first. Absolutely nothing. Got up. Get ready. Get my daughter ready. Good morning to the husband. And went about my days. The anxiety level had kicked in so hard that it was affecting my stomach.

Annie [00:06:25]:

I couldn't keep anything in. I was losing weight. My body felt like a perpetual knot. My mind was swimming with thoughts of shame and fear that the family was broken. Time went on. And as things happen in life, one thing leads to another. One discovery led to another discovery. One lie led to another lie.

Annie [00:06:58]:

It wasn't until I found a document in our dresser, a loan for $2,000 at some exorbitant interest rate, like 36%. Now I'm a financial planner; okay, I understand what this means. I just remember approaching him and saying, what was this for? He doesn't know what I know. So I said, what is this for? What was the money used for? And the response was, you went through my stuff. And you know that sinking feeling you get, like I'm not gonna get any answers here. And it doesn't really matter because now what I was beating myself up for for the longest time.

Annie [00:07:52]:

You're a financial planner. You advise people all the time about these kinds of things, and it wasn't just that document. When I took a moment, I was like, wait a second. How did I get here? We both work? I earned half of his income at that time, but I was paying all the bills. I had taken on his debt because I thought I was being a good wife. I had a promotional rate on my card, so I'm like, hey, let's pay this off sooner and save it towards our house.

Annie [00:08:29]:

Money was disappearing from my wallet and my bank account because I gave him my PIN code at one time. And I just thought, how can you, a financial planner, be the person who advises people to be smart with their money, the person who thinks of all potential paths; how could I not see this coming? How did I get to a place where I made these kinds of decisions that, if you told me now, I'd be like, that is not a smart move. And I still did nothing. I was just swimming in anxiety and frozen in the life that I was living. Until one day, my mom called me out of the blue, and I said, hey, mom, how'd you know that I needed you to call me? What is it, Annie? And I'm trying to hold it all in, right, because she doesn't know what has been going on in my life. And I said, well, I know you believe in marriage forever, and so do I, but what would you say if that wasn't the case for me? And without hesitation, she said, you're a very smart girl. I said, okay, mom. And I started to cry.

Annie [00:09:48]:

And I said, I've got some things to do, and I've got some decisions to make, but when I can, I'll call you and tell you everything. Okay? And she said, okay, Annie. I'll talk to you soon. And she hung up. When I reflect on that now, I'm like, man, she was brave. Because if my daughter called me without telling me everything, I'd be like, wait, I need to know. Let me help you. Let me take care of it.

Annie [00:10:15]:

But she did the right thing. I wasn't prepared to say anything anyway. I remember the first time I walked into the family lawyer's office and said, I have my CFP. I have my Certified Financial Planning designation because, at that moment, I felt like it was the only thing I had going for me. And, even then, I felt grateful because I know that most people don't even have that. So, over time, I worked with some key people. I asked questions, and I tried to let out some of the feelings, but really, I was in survival mode.

Annie [00:11:01]:

I had to make some changes for my daughter, who had just turned three. I listened, and since then, day after day, weeks and months go by, I went from being in five-figure debt to having six figures in savings. I went from earning half of his income from the time we separated and divorced to now, like, eight years later, earning six figures in income, which was about triple what I was making at the time, and I currently exceed his income. I went from being a team member to being a team leader to being a CEO of my own businesses, which I never could have imagined. It wasn't in the realm of possibility because I didn't know what I was capable of. I didn't know it was possible for me.

Annie [00:12:01]:

But once I made that decision, everything started to fall into place. More importantly, I went from saying okay and yes to saying no, period, and that's the end of it. I learned to trust my instincts, listen to my voice, and let it speak. And I allowed my voice to connect with my heart so they were aligned.

Christopher [00:12:32]:

What is that mechanism? I mean, that's what we're talking about here, right? It's living this fulfilled life, having all the things line up in a row so everyone can know who you are or who you're pretending to be. What was the mechanism that took you from that to a fulfilling life, to a life internal, a life about you? What was that magic thing? Or what were the mechanisms that took you there?

Annie [00:13:01]:

I don't know that there was any magic involved, per se. The magic came later. The mechanism was that when I was on the floor with my heart beating like I was about to die and thinking, for milliseconds, maybe that's better for all. Maybe it's best if I don't exist. There was a stronger voice that said, no, you need to live. You need to live for your daughter because no one will love her like you will, no one will protect her like you will, and no one will show her the beauty of life like you will. And for the longest time, that was my driving force. At first, you kick into survival mode, and you stay there for a while.

Annie [00:13:55]:

You know, you've got tasks that need to get done. You have lawyer conversations you need to do. You have money conversations, maybe even money exchanging hands. You have custody issues to work out. It's a whole new routine. How do you explain it to people? It's hard to just step right into the real you when you're trying to sort through it all. It took me a few years, and I was seeing a therapist. I made sure to get the appropriate professional help.

Annie [00:14:31]:

I listened to my lawyer, but what I also started to do was sit more into my instincts, you know, what was right for me, what was okay for me, what would I no longer allow? And yeah, you need to do the reflective work on how I got here. How did I even get here in the first place? How did I allow this? And although that was probably one of the biggest change catalysts of my life, and it was painful, it would have been easier to just put the blinders on and keep going, but I couldn't anymore. I had negotiated myself out of so many red flags along the way, and we'd been together for ten years. I mean, the red flag started in month two of our relationship, okay, month two. Somehow, I was like, it's okay, we'll work it out. So, as they started to kind of process all of it, and yes, it was tough, but I found a gratitude and an appreciation for the catalyst, the situation that helped me to become the person I was meant to be. It's a constant evolution. It's not like you walk off into the sunset, and tada, you're done. There are cycles; there's a flow and waves. What I've come to get better at is riding those waves, allowing them to come and go, giving myself permission to not be perfect, not always be on, and not always feel happy and joyful.

Annie [00:16:29]:

And that was really important as well because I knew I was modeling behavior for my daughter. So, I got good at apologizing to my kid and working on it. I got more comfortable with saying, I'm doing my best, or, I'm really tired right now, and that's okay. Just having the conversation around something that I came to learn over time, which is what your body is telling you. If you're an A-type achieving female leader, then you are great at intellectualizing and compartmentalizing. We've learned to operate that way because that's what the corporate environment nurtures and supports, but we're ignoring our bodies. Our bodies hold memories, and they tell us the truth. And when it got to moments where my body was like, I give up, you know what, I'm just gonna take you out. You haven't been listening. I've been trying to give you clues to take a moment, and now I'm just going to knock you out for a while. Maybe then you'll figure it out.

Annie [00:17:42]:

That happened to me a couple of times, like, more than twice. So a few times, I was like, oh, my God, when am I going to get the message? So, when I told you the magic happens later, it was when I started to take things as they are, not try to fit myself into a box, and not try to do that for others, either. Really, I want to see my strengths and accept them. Like, I went on a retreat with a good friend of mine. We're good friends, but this was our first retreat together. At one point, we're bawling our eyes out, we're digging deep, we're uncovering a bunch of stuff because it's always evolving, and we're healing, and she turns to me and says, Annie, you're amazing.

Annie [00:18:33]:

And I looked at her and said, where do you see that? Like, how? How do you see that? I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I needed to get to that place for myself but also to surround myself with the people that would remind me of those things. And I can tell you that my situation is completely different now. My life is in a different place. My daughter blossomed almost immediately after I made the decision to separate. I wasn't expecting that. I knew it was the right decision, but I didn't know that she would blossom, which means that there were things happening for her that she was also, in her own little three-year-old, two-year-old way, trying to manage in the best way she knew, but I hadn't seen. So, I have full custody of my daughter, which is rare; she sees her dad regularly, but I have full decision-making authority.

Annie [00:19:26]:

That in itself was really empowering because not only did I have full decision-making authority over this little life, my daughter, but I realized I have full decision-making authority over my life. It's definitely been a journey. Now, I can talk about those moments in what I hope is a very open and vulnerable way. Part-time, I teach financial planning and insurance in financial planning at a local college. I shared parts of that story with my class because learning the basics from a textbook is one thing, but putting it into the context of real-life situations is what helps you remember the concepts. So now I'm at a place where I'm okay sharing these parts. I'm very careful about the parts that I share because there's a lot more to the story. But I know that my daughter, who's still very young, and It's part of her story, too. So until she's at the stage where she's okay to share, I'm going to honor that part of it.

Annie [00:20:40]:

However, when I shared in class, I had a student, female student come up to me at break and say, professor, thank you so much for sharing that story. It really means a lot to me. I really resonated with it because I'm about to go into marriage, and this was really good for me. Now, I don't know where she was coming from, what part resonated, or what it meant for her, but first of all, I thought it was courageous for her to even come up and say that to me. And, yes, it was validating for me to hear that. But more than anything, I thought, this is why I do it. That's what I told her. I said this is why I share because we need to talk about these things more. We need to be open about it.

Annie [00:21:29]:

I didn't know anyone who was separated or divorced when I was going through my own, but one by one, I started to connect with people, men, and women, who were going through it or had been through it. When I was married, I thought having that element of judgment was quite natural. Well, I'm married, right? I'm great. I have a whole home. Oh, those people that are separated, divorced, there must be something wrong there. So, I learned a sense of humility as well. As I was going through it, I was like, no, people are just people doing their best going through these things. One of the things I discovered was that family and friends around me, as I started to slowly uncover and tell them what was going on for years, my most recent discovery was that they wanted to help me. They didn't know how, but some of them didn't ask, either. So when somebody's going through that, and you want to help, but you don't know how, and you don't want to impose, and you don't want to make it worse, so you don't say anything, and you don't ask, how could I, or what can I do? It actually makes that person feel more alone, and they're already in survival mode.

Annie [00:23:17]:

They're just like, I got to get the food, I got to do the house, I got to go to work, I got to pay that bill, I've got to drive her back and forth, all that kind of stuff. It's important for someone like me going through it to know because you get really good at compartmentalizing, surviving, and getting things done. That type A served me well in that moment. But then I had to learn to be open and be vulnerable. I had to learn to ask for help. That was huge.

Heather [00:23:40]:

One of the things that you highlighted, and we've had some amazing conversations on this, is that when you have rose-colored glasses on at the beginning of a relationship, seeing red flags, and I think we've all been there, it's not just the rose-colored glasses for the individual, it's rose-colored glasses for the life, the husband, the picture perfect feeling being fulfilled and whole. I'm just wondering, and I think you've already really beautifully touched on listening to your body and understanding that we live in a very corporate world that's instructed us to tune out when we're tired or when we're bringing pieces of our energy that are depleted, to work, to shut it down. So, to really tune into our body, to listen to when it's telling you about a red flag. Can you elaborate on those red flags that you would want other people to notice or ways that you allowed your body to feel what it needed to feel, to call it what it was?

Annie [00:24:53]:

That's a big question. Questions. I think there's a lot of great resources on what red flags and relationships look like. For me, mine were huge red flags, but I thought I was so in love that we could work through anything. My red flags were, and it's hilarious, and I joke about this in the college class that I teach because I'm like, guys, can you believe that? This is what I was okay with. The red flags were two months into the relationship, long enough for me to fall in love, right? He tells me, by the way, I'm getting divorced.

Annie [00:25:38]:

And I'm like, I didn't know you were married. And I'm about to claim bankruptcy. And I've been in financial services long enough at this point this little part of me was like, what? Hell, no! And I was like, no, no, you stay. And what I said was, it's okay. We'll get through together. If you ask me now, I'm like, are you out of your mind?

Annie [00:26:07]:

Listen, it's just been two months; you don't owe this man anything now. I will never regret that my daughter came out of that situation because that is one of the biggest blessings of my life, but two months and making that kind of a huge decision to commit and knowing that I've got the financial background, knowing what it means to be smart with your money, be responsible. I mean, those are two big red flags.

Christopher [00:26:35]:

However, I mean, we're falling in love, we meet someone who seems to be hitting all the right notes on our keyboard, and we don't want to lose the potential of what that could be. And we don't want to be wrong to admit we're wrong and bail out.

Annie [00:26:56]:

Well, I'm going to use your metaphor for the keyboard for a second. All the notes on the keyboard seem to be hitting the right way, but we don't have the right audio in place because the keys are screeching. And what we're hearing is this beautiful melody because that's what we want to hear. We want to find that one person. We want everything to work out beautifully on paper. When I first met him, everything was okay. A good job, you know, physically, he met some key points, all that stuff.

Annie [00:27:36]:

What didn't help, though, at the time, was my mom, who hadn't met him yet in the beginning, was already like, he's not right for you. And I'm going into full rebel mode. I was like, you don't even know; you have never met the person. Like, how could you know? That was dangerous because instead of being open to listening, being honest with myself, and giving things more time, I went into defensive mode, which pulled me right back into his corner.

Christopher [00:28:20]:

It's gasoline on a fire.

Annie [00:28:22]:

Yeah. Obviously, I wasn't consciously aware of all this happening, but what it did for me, especially in the financial planning world, I'm like, okay, so I get an upfront seat to bankruptcy processes and how you rebuild credit. Fortunately, it didn't impact me directly right away, but over time, the financial decisions being made by the other person were more and more questionable. I got to a place where I was like, what's going on? None of this makes sense. And it did start to affect my credit because of my trying to be a good wife; I took on some of his debt in my name. So, my debt and credit score were affected.

Annie [00:29:14]:

My credit score was low. It wasn't like in the low 600s or the high 500s. It was low. It's acceptable, but low. When I recently checked my credit score, it was 840. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm like Celine Dion and whatever fancy credit card she has because you have such an awesome credit score. I have an appreciation for that now.

Annie [00:29:48]:

I also have humility for people who have bad credit or they, you know, they've made some irresponsible decisions, but they are working on it. I think it's really important, especially in the work that I do with people, to say, hey, not only do I know what you're feeling, literally, but this doesn't define you, and I'm going to help you work through it. It's not just about the numbers, black and white, on a piece of paper. It's about the human being behind it. And if I can, I just love to help people remove that shame around it, the fear around, you know, the anger around it. Let's just get to a place where I hear you, and I see you. Let's work on it in a productive way.

Christopher [00:30:46]:

Is that what sets you apart as a financial person? What is it about you that when I come to you, I can not anticipate getting from you? What will I get from you that sets you apart and makes you different, that makes you unique and special? What would you say that is?

Annie [00:31:05]:

I think one of the key taglines on my website, which kind of came about organically, it wasn't really planned, but it's financial empowerment through soulful wisdom. That's really uncommon in this industry. I've worked with advisors in their teams. I've coached advisors. As I said, I've helped thousands of people directly with their plans, and my style evolved over time. The one thing that I couldn't seem to escape from was the humanity part of it. If I can be there for you in a way that maybe I didn't have at first, I had it maybe in bits and pieces from people who are doing their best to try to support and help me and guide me along the way. I think that builds trust and loyalty in the relationship and the communication because, obviously, in most instances, when you hear about a relationship breakup, communication is a big factor.

Annie [00:32:07]:

So, I do that. I also try to uncover and help people see their strengths. I know your strengths. You know my strengths. Let's operate from a position of power empowerment. I'm going to get you there. I'm going to guide you there step by step. If there's something I don't know, I will either find out or get you the right person. At the beginning of my career, there were a lot of parts that were very ego-driven.

Annie [00:32:35]:

I was raised like that, from the environment that we grew up in in this industry. It didn't sit well with me after a while, and I had some key people along the way say, ah, you know what, Annie, that's not working so well. And they were right. Some of the toughest lessons I've had to learn have been the most valuable in getting me to the better version of myself. And that's what I like to do for others as well. Acknowledging that they've been through those tough things doesn't define them. The past doesn't define them. And where they are now is not where they'll end up.

Annie [00:33:21]:

I think having that sense of humanity and holding space because money is a tool. It's a tool, but we make decisions emotionally. Like, in my case, we'll get through it together. Let me take on your debt and put it in my name. Right. That's not logical. That was completely emotional.

Annie [00:33:44]:

And suppose we can have people who can guide us through not just the key parts of our life because that's really what a lot of advisors are for; it's like the key parts, key moments of our life, the biggest transitions of our life, but it's that in between phases, too. In that case, it's connecting with your relationship with money, which is really not about money at all, and that informs so many other things in our life, relationships with everything.

Heather [00:34:11]:

I'm wondering if what you were just saying, is there one of the archetypes or the words that we dive into in this show that really spoke to you or had an impact or brought something up for you out of the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch.

Annie [00:34:28]:

I love this question. You know, we start out, especially in our careers, or when we're starting in life, we're in a relationship, we get married, we're like, all right, I achieved these things. I am set. I'm an adult now. And even when you start in your career, you're like, oh, great, I got a job. I'm earning money now. I got a promotion. Like, I'm the bomb.

Annie [00:34:58]:

What I realized over time is the things that I was criticized for that became my strengths were my innocence and purity. When I was a kid, my dad used to say to me, Annie, and he's Armenian, why do you have to be Mother Teresa all the time? You can clearly see how that played out because I was being a Mother Teresa in the worst ways. But it allowed me to evolve. Over time, I now see innocence and purity as strength. To look at things through the eyes of a child with a sense of wonder, to see possibilities. So, in terms of the word Virgin, I would say that I definitely resonate with that. At the same time, Bitch is the word that I resonate with because I will protect that purity and innocence. I learned to find my strength and my power in a healthy way while still maintaining and creating boundaries as I discover them while being unapologetic about it and just being authentically me. Beauty has been the journey to get there.

Heather [00:36:30]:

Beautifully said. What's beneath the surface of each one of those words and what they mean to each individual is it's been very illuminating to go beyond what originally comes up for you and what it's meant to you over time, and the protectress in you for what is the Virgin as a concept, I think that is really like a warrior, warrior-esque kind of spirit as well. Thank you for that.

Annie [00:36:58]:

And I want to answer something Christopher said about magic. When I said the magic came later, there were elements of magic throughout my life, but I was not open to seeing them and embracing them. When I say the magic came later, it's because as I settled more and more, I went from high anxiety survival mode to just settling in, kind of grounding myself, giving myself permission to go through things, like how I needed to feel my feelings while still being ambitious, going for things, developing myself, and all of that. And the magic, the way that I feel it now, I allow things to flow. I surrender more, even when things are not quite working out or there's a delay with something, or maybe I got rejected for something, but it redirected me to a better opportunity. So, the magic has come with time. My being open to seeing the magic that's such a beautiful feeling, too.

Annie [00:38:10]:

This year alone, three big things have come up. Things that I didn't plan. They were totally unplanned but perfectly aligned. To me, that's such a beautiful thing. Again, with the name of your podcast, I allowed myself to see the beauty of that part of the journey, the purity and innocence of being open to these possibilities, then embracing them, and then stepping into my power to be like, hell, yeah, you know, just do it. Go for that thing. Speak up and create the opportunity yourself. Follow the flow.

Christopher [00:39:04]:

I'll give you some of our magic. It's that when we were thinking of doing this podcast together so many years ago, and we were trying to find a name, these three words just came to me. I presented them to Heather, and she fell in love with them immediately. In the beginning, they were just words. Virgin Beauty, Bitch. We had old knowledge of these words, but they sounded great together. They're provocative as far as marketing goes. They were perfect, great words. Over time, there seemed to be magic in why these words came together to us in that order, and you expressed it perfectly. These are not just words that fall into place and have a traditional meaning to them.

Christopher [00:39:55]:

They're living entities in our lives, and we need to explore them to their fullest in order to have fulfilled lives. So thank you for opening that door to these words that are more than words. Thank you so much for doing that for us.

Annie [00:40:15]:

Yeah, and I think you touched on something there, too. They are states of being, but you're never in one state all the time.

Christopher [00:40:22]:

Exactly.

Christopher [00:40:24]:

They're beyond the lifestyle; they're beyond the way of being. They're just life. And do you indulge in it? Do you see the advantages of it? Can you use them for your advancement as a human being? Those words are there for that if that's what you want. If you want to go down that rabbit hole, it's there. So, if I want to work with you because I love everything you say, how do people get ahold of you? Because you're amazing.

Annie [00:40:58]:

I appreciate that, and I accept that compliment. I've got a website, it's, w. annieizmirliyan.com.

Christopher [00:41:10]:

Spell that out because that's not a common word name, right?

Annie [00:41:14]:

So it's Annie, and then it would be my last name, which is Izmirliyan, annieIzmirliyan.com. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. For other projects I am working on, my friend and I just started a podcast called Two Moms and Some Business. We talk about things like corporate leadership and mindful parenting. We just had a guest about personal branding tied into the complexities of the corporate world. The other thing I'm starting is my own YouTube channel.

Annie [00:42:02]:

And to your point about the name, the name came to me: Annie Unleashed. I'll be posting soon. But it was funny because I asked a couple of friends in my circle, and I said, hey, what do you think of this name? A couple of them were like, oh, awesome. Love it. Go for it, girl. One friend asked if there's another word for unleashed. Like maybe this or that? And I was like, nope. That's exactly why I've got to use that word, because of all the things that I've been through. It's tasteful, professional, and respectful.

Annie [00:42:40]:

It's got to be me speaking out and speaking in my voice, in my way. I repressed it and suppressed it for so long. Yes, based on limiting beliefs and old programming. And it was just me reinforcing those things that didn't make sense. So, having that lightness and freedom to speak on important topics. My YouTube channel will be about things like taking financial planning concepts and making them relatable in a way that I haven't seen done so far. Speaking about mindful parenting, things like marriage, divorce, and separation.

Annie [00:43:26]:

You know, we've got to be comfortable talking about these things because if it's not us going through it, it's somebody that we know going through it.

Christopher [00:43:31]:

We have to get you back because there's so much to explore. Today, it was great to hear your personal story and how you can help so many different people with your knowledge. We'll have to have you back and explore even further.

Annie [00:43:52]:

Sure. I would love that. I'll tell you the last area, though, because I've got to honor it. It's important. The fourth area I want to touch on my channel is my daughter's wisdom. Even though she's so young, she says things sometimes that I'm like, oh, my gosh, that is so wise. And she goes, not really, mommy. It's just real life. We have some really cool conversations that I feel compelled to share until she's able to do that for herself one day. But there's such beauty in that as well, in what I see in the person that she's becoming that I have to share. But yes, I'm happy to come back and help out and share and keep sharing these stories as well.

Christopher [00:44:44]:

Definitely keep in touch. You and I have had some phenomenal conversations, so hopefully, that will continue as well. But in the meantime, people find this phenomenal human being and connect. It would be well worth your while. In the meantime, you've been listening to.

Heather [00:45:01]:

The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch.

Christopher [00:45:04]:

Find us, Like us, Share us. Come on back. If you enjoyed this conversation, let us know because we want to continue with your participation. So thank you. To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Defiantly Different like you. Until next time, thanks for listening.