VBB 297: Mariska Reinerink - Relationships And Money!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather. 

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

What is the most important relationship in your life? Family, friend, spouse? I wonder, do you ever count your relationship with money? And if money is a relationship, is that relationship strained? Does money visit as often as you would like? Does money stay very long? If not, we're happy to introduce you to a money therapist, Mariska Reinerink, who is actually a renowned money wellness and business coach. Welcome back, Mariska, to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Mariska Reinerink [00:00:59]:

Well, thank you for having me. Thank you. That was a lovely introduction. I love how you pulled that into the relationship part.

Christopher [00:01:08]:

Mariska, you joined us on a Women and Money conversation in 2023. It was episode 238, if people want to hear it. Now, you have a book titled Untangling Your Relationship with Money, and it is full of practical tools to help people navigate their relationships, one that we often neglect or take for granted. Now, Mariska, just for our audience, so they can relate to your message, was your relationship with money always on good terms?

Mariska Reinerink [00:01:40]:

No, it was not. I mean, it's very much why I ended up where I am now; I realized more and more how strained that relationship was. But also working as a financial advisor, always having a mask on, if you will, like, ooh, I got my shit together, you know. Excuse my French. I've got my business together. And realizing that I didn't feel great about money either. And with stuff happening in life, I've had a super roller-coaster relationship with money, and it was stressful. Once I dropped the mask and really became much more authentic or became authentic in talking to people and relating to people, especially women, I realized how we all feel the same way and how that no matter how much money the person has in their lives, they would still have this stress, fear or anxiety.

Mariska Reinerink [00:02:43]:

And as I started seeing that, I realized this needs to be addressed. For example, when we talk about money, we immediately go to the numbers as we normally do in financial services. That leaves out, in my opinion, the most important part, which is how we feel about money. Everybody uses the word mindset, and I can't find a good alternative for it yet, but it goes deeper than that. It's really about how we relate to money, how we feel about money, money that matters, and that influences how we make money decisions. So if we don't start here, then we can't make good decisions out there with our actual money.

Christopher [00:03:35]:

How many people actually know that as a fact?

Mariska Reinerink [00:03:38]:

Not enough. Because here we're walking around feeling bad about ourselves, feeling money shame, minimizing or stressing out, really stressing out about money. So, not enough people know about this. It's one of the reasons I wrote the book, because I'm like, then it can get out there, and more people can just get a glimpse of it at least, and start thinking that way or start becoming aware of these things. And once you become aware, awareness is power, right? Then you can make changes, or you can at least make new decisions.

Heather [00:04:16]:

What would your advice be for somebody who feels that they've gone through the motions or maybe have tried different things in the past to have a better relationship with money? What are some of your advice to get on a new track?

Mariska Reinerink [00:04:34]:

I guess it would depend on what they've tried. A lot of people don't know about money coaching or this side of money, looking at what is going on, what you are actually feeling, and what is coming up. I did a workshop last week, and if you're not sure what your beliefs are about money, then, and if you're self-employed, for example, then think about charging double what you're charging right now, or ten times that much, and see what thoughts immediately come up. I was talking to somebody on the phone this afternoon, and she was like, oh, my gosh, no, I don't want any money. I don't want to be rich. So, immediately, she pushed that away. And it's like, are you then surprised that money isn't showing up? Money shows us how we feel about it and how our relationship is. I look at it as a mirror. The money showing up in our lives is not the cause of the stress; it's the result of the stress.

Mariska Reinerink [00:05:35]:

It's the other way around. So, becoming aware of that and finding out why you spend, because, in my book, I talk, too, about the relationship of the biology of money, the relationship between our brain and our hormones and money, the body-mind and money connection. There's a lot of dopamine behind our spending. We joke about retail therapy, but there's a lot of biology behind our decisions. So start to look at those and start looking after yourself. Self-care is number one; it's my number one tip for getting a better relationship with money. Sounds weird because what does it have to do with money? But it has to do with our peace of mind, with us honoring ourselves and starting to value ourselves.

Mariska Reinerink [00:06:25]:

Once we start to value ourselves, then things start to show up. It's kind of magic in how that works.

Christopher [00:06:32]:

I would definitely recommend reading the book as you go through chapter by chapter, breaking down money, shame money, and how the brain works. And, as you just mentioned, hormones. Can you talk about that a bit? Because I think everybody is affected by money and hormones, but we don't understand how these things are linked together. The triad, as you put it in your book, is cortisol, serotonin, and dopamine. Can you walk through that a little bit to see how it works for people?

Mariska Reinerink [00:07:03]:

Yeah. My very simplified version is when we have a strained relationship with money because of the beliefs that we picked up in childhood. Thinking about money causes stress. Then, every time a thought about money comes up, we have a little stress response, which means our body releases cortisol, a stress hormone.

Mariska Reinerink [00:07:38]:

I'm sure there are studies on how many times a day we think about money. Are we going to walk or take the bus or park, or are we going to have this for dinner or that, like all these little things? And if every time there's a stress response, even if it's a little one, then we keep releasing cortisol, and it just becomes chronic. Now, there are all kinds of impacts of chronic cortisol overload, and I talk more about that in my book. But something that also happens is that serotonin, our feel-good hormone, goes down. So now we don't feel so good. We start to get depressed, and you know that yucky feeling. So often, we rely on the hormone dopamine, which is a really quick fix.

Mariska Reinerink [00:08:27]:

It's like this hormone that's a real boost. It doesn't last very long, but it's a real boost. And we can get that, amongst other things, through shopping. It's so cool. They've proven this. They've done these functional M.R.I. tests in behavioral finance. If we get something on sale, even more dopamine will be released. Even the expectation of money often has us release more dopamine than actually getting the money, which is super cool. So, now we have this dopamine. We feel great. We've bought this thing, but it doesn't last that long. I always say that by the time you come home from your shopping trip and definitely by the time your visa bill comes in, that feeling is long gone. So now you're back to dopamine hits. Spending money and buying more things.

Mariska Reinerink [00:09:26]:

But why I find it so important for people to understand is that there's nothing wrong with shopping. Let's get that clear. There's nothing wrong with buying things. However, if we buy things because we want them to make us feel better, we're solving the wrong problem with things that are not going to make us feel better. Having less stress is going to make us feel better. Having more serotonin is going to make us feel better. And there are other ways to do that. Shopping is not the solution to the problem that we think it is.

Mariska Reinerink [00:10:00]:

Does that make sense? There is a saying—I tried to find it for my book—that says we're asking the wrong question or this question doesn't fit the solution, or something along those lines.

Christopher [00:10:13]:

I was thinking of using the wrong tool for the job.

Mariska Reinerink [00:10:15]:

Oh, that's a good one. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. It's not lasting, and it actually makes us feel more empty because then we realize that we're sad again or we're not feeling happy. So, we feel even more down or more depressed, and it can really spiral out of control. And, you know, there are better ways to get that dopamine. And again, nothing wrong with dopamine either.

Mariska Reinerink [00:10:43]:

It's just finding that balance, and again, that's where self-care comes in. If we look after ourselves and take care of ourselves, then stress goes down, and the need for dopamine goes down. So it all ties in together.

Heather [00:10:59]:

What have you suggested to your clients where that dopamine rush of shopping has become kind of a crutch or something like that? Like, do you have any pieces of advice that, you know, kind of balances the self care? And what I hear a lot from women is that they want to treat themselves. You know what I mean? They do this and this and this, and then they deserve a treat.

Mariska Reinerink [00:11:25]:

Wow. Yeah. So, a couple of things. So, that treat thing, I mean, I have that. Again, there's nothing terribly wrong with it as long as it doesn't have too big an impact. And if you have lots of extra or disposable income or slack, as they can call it,  then even these shopping sprees are not going to have a massive impact on your day-to-day life. But once the debt starts to build, especially in North America with credit cards and stuff, that's when it becomes a problem.

Mariska Reinerink [00:12:03]:

So, a couple of things you were asking about the tips. If you need to go shopping and you want to have a crazy shopping spree, then go to the dollar store or something because the damage is minimal. You know, that's kind of one way I often suggest. I mean, I don't suggest it, but if you really need to go nuts, then go nuts in the dollar store or go nuts at Costco and go take it back the next day, you know. I always have people make a happy list and really think about what they can do. What really, truly does make you happy? For me, it's dancing. I have this playlist that I put on in the morning, and it's got all the disco tunes, and when I have one of those moments where I'm like, huh, I just put that on and start dancing while I'm vacuuming, whatever, and it just lifts your spirit.

Mariska Reinerink [00:12:58]:

It's important to have a list because you can't always start dancing. But maybe it's something else. Maybe it's doing yoga or reading a book or something, but ideally, something that is not related to money. We need to break that money is going to fix the problem link that we're taught and that we see all around us. Look at ads, buy this, and you'll be happy. Buy this, and you'll have it. But whether you have it or not is not related.

Christopher [00:13:36]:

I want to point out that your book contains many useful, practical tools and exercises. I mean, it's right there on the page for you to look at and participate in. Why did you do it that way? What did you think when you introduced that as a tool?

Mariska Reinerink [00:13:57]:

Yeah, I really wanted this book to be a practical guide because we can read books till the cows come home, but if we don't apply it, then it's not gonna make a big difference. So, I wanted to keep the book accessible. I've written it in very simple language. Some people say it's just like having tea with you. And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of how I wanted it to sound, you know, and then it's not very thick. You can probably get through it in a weekend if you really sit down with it.

Mariska Reinerink [00:14:30]:

So it's not intimidating. It's not this big book that had I written everything, then it would have been really thick. By doing the exercises right away, you can apply them right away and get those insights. And that's what matters; it's getting those insights and those aha moments like, oh, I never thought about this. And the moment that clicks, then you're already one little step closer to a better relationship with money.

Christopher [00:14:57]:

There's one chapter that I think is the aha moment for me. It's the chapter- it's safe to have money. It's basically reframing the relationship that we've had our whole lives, and how we see money and its impact on our lives. It's having the awareness to reframe that. Can you speak about that a little bit?

Mariska Reinerink [00:15:20]:

Yeah, it's actually used by Denise Duffield Thomas. She's also doing this kind of work. She's from Australia. She's fantastic, and what I realized while working with my clients is that there's something about money that really goes into our core survival. You know, it really touches us deeply. It's not just something on the surface. I think the moment you introduce the word safe together with money, it touches that part of us that really needs to hear that. And it comes with this sense of peace that's so important.

Mariska Reinerink [00:16:02]:

So, for the listeners, the idea is that you finish the sentence - It is safe for me, too. And you finish the sentence with something that's really important to you. For example, if you are really scared of spending money, then you could say, it is safe for me to spend money or to have money or to think about money or to open my envelopes. It's wherever you're feeling, and that's how you want to finish that sentence. And the more you know you've got the right, or you're getting closer to the right sentence when you start to feel emotional about it. Usually, with my clients, once they start to choke up, they're like, yeah, no, no, we've got it now. We've got it. So, play around with those words and just really sit with that like it is safe for me to have money for example.

Christopher [00:16:57]:

I want to ask you this, though. If you had a magic wand to redo all of our childhoods, why is money such a universal issue? I mean, everyone has money. Everyone uses money. Why do we have such a problem with this thing in our lives?

Mariska Reinerink [00:17:23]:

It goes way, way, way back. I have somewhere in my files the history, the full history of money. Do you know in the history of mankind that money was banned two or three times when they were like, okay, enough already? We're not doing this thing, this money thing anymore. Enough. I think one of the times was with the Romans or something where they had gotten such lavish lifestyles and were really abusing money in an extravagant way that they were like, okay, we need to stop. But in a way, all of that is still carried in our collective subconscious, and we just keep teaching that from one generation to the next. And even within our lifetime or within this century, there's been the Great Depression.

Mariska Reinerink [00:18:19]:

And, again, that elicited all kinds of fears, not even imagined. Fears like banks really did show up at people's doors saying we're going to take your house. So again, those fears are passed on to the next generation. And where do we learn about money? From our parents, mostly, or from our primary caregivers. So, it just keeps going from one generation to the next. And still, nobody talks about the emotional side because it's bad to be emotional about money. Yes, it's bad to make emotional decisions when it comes to money, but it's good to pay attention to your emotions when you're talking about money because the emotions are your clue or your roadmap or your G.P.S.

Heather [00:19:13]:

I'm taking it in a different direction just because I'm thinking of the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch as emotions around money. That the virgin, she's still naive and isn't really too sure what to do with it, kind of tiptoeing her way in. And beauty, maybe on the surface, she's figured it out, but she's still trying to figure out that happy list that you were talking about. And the bitch, she, she knows what she wants out of money, and she's gonna fight for it or fight to do as she wishes. So we love to ask our guests if there's one of our archetypes that speaks to you, and maybe one of them speaks to you when it comes to money.

Mariska Reinerink [00:19:56]:

I love that because I thought about that before we started talking, and I was like, well, I guess I wouldn't be any, but if you put it that way, then totally, I would be the bitch because I know what I want. And I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm not going to justify why I want something. It's just, you know, this is what I want and deserve, and I want to bring it on.

Christopher [00:20:26]:

What does it feel like when you take a woman through that cycle from virgin to bitch when it comes to money? What does that feel like for you as a teacher?

Mariska Reinerink [00:20:35]:

Oh, it just brings me to tears even thinking about it. It just, I feel so, I might start crying now. I feel so honored to be able to take women through that journey that I can support them through this journey and help them find that part of themselves, that bitch part of themselves, if you will. I call it the warrior, but still, the bitch sounds way, way better. I just feel so honored.

Mariska Reinerink [00:21:06]:

To me, it's such a gift to have found my purpose and to know that this is how my brain works, this is what I'm good at, and this is what I am allowed to do in the world. How amazing is that, right? That's what I feel when I get to help these women. I just get goosebumps when they say things, and I'm like, oh, my God, they got it. They got it.

Christopher [00:21:34]:

Well, congratulations on the book because this just reaches even more women and men to be able to work their way through their relationship with this thing we have to have in our lives. So congratulations. Untangling Your Relationship With Money. Where do we get it? Where do we get this book?

Mariska Reinerink [00:21:54]:

Amazon is the best and easiest way to get it. It's on pretty much all the Amazon channels in all the countries. I saw Barnes and Noble as well. Somehow, it ended up there. I'm not sure, but Amazon's the easiest place to get it.

Christopher [00:22:14]:

Yeah, and if someone wants to maybe work with you directly, then they can.

Mariska Reinerink [00:22:19]:

Go to my website and contact me through there. In the book, there are some Q.R. codes for a course and a Facebook group that people can also get a hold of. Yeah, I can be found. My biggest problem with the book was becoming visible. It wasn't writing the book; that part was fairly easy. Becoming visible was by far the hardest part. Being on Amazon and for everybody to find me was terrifying. So, now that I've done that, I'm also going to get on social media a little bit more and become visible so they can find me on Instagram and Facebook.

Christopher [00:23:01]:

For now, with great power comes great responsibility. Something like that.

Heather [00:23:08]:

Would you mind letting them know your website name and your social media handles?

Mariska Reinerink [00:23:13]:

Yeah, for sure. My website name is yourmoneywellness.com, and my social media is yourmoneywellness at yourmoneywellness. That goes for both Instagram and Facebook. So, thank you for letting me be more visible and getting it out there, helping me get the book out there.

Christopher [00:23:38]:

Well, we are always here if you ever want to practice being visible. You are welcome back anytime. I'm just watching you and seeing the joy, glow, and glee in your face for having put this out into the world from your heart. It's really special to see that glow now that you have done this.

Mariska Reinerink [00:24:05]:

Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. That means a lot. I remember going to Vancouver last April to teach some workshops for the YWCA. I built a course for them. And to see some of the responses from women who were coming up to me saying, oh, my gosh, I almost want to ask for your photo and your autograph because I can't believe you're really here. People who wanted to take pictures with me or were in tears just hugged me. That's when you, you know, that Mastercard commercial, you know, the price of the flight was this much and whatever. The whole trip doing these workshops was just priceless because that's when things clicked for me, and this is my path. Yeah, I'm here to stay.

Christopher [00:24:56]:

Congratulations again, truly. And you have been listening to.

Heather [00:25:01]:

The Virgin, The Beauty, and the Money Bitch, Slash Warrior. Because they're both amazing.

Christopher [00:25:13]:

So find us. Like us. Share us. Come on back. We'll have much more for you right here. To become a partner in the V.B.B. community, we invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com. like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And share us with people who are Defiantly Different like you. Until next time, thanks for listening.