VBB 294: Debbie Peterson - Women, Power, and Politics!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being Defiantly Different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

Whether you believe democracy is flawed or broken, it remains the most peaceful way to orchestrate social change in our world. Be that in your country, state, province, city, town, or hamlet. Still, the most glaring failure of democracy is one of representation. And the most prominent victims have been women. To help us gain some perspective, we're privileged to have a former mayor joining us. We welcome three-time best-selling authority, keynote speaker, local government coach, podcaster, and consultant Debbie Peterson. Welcome to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Debbie Peterson [00:01:02]:

Thank you. I'm looking forward to having a great conversation with you both.

Christopher [00:01:06]:

Now, Debbie, you were elected directly as the first female mayor of Grover Beach, California. And before that, you served as a councilwoman and planning commissioner. In total, over ten years of public service. But before we touch on why you eventually walked away from politics, I'm curious to ask, what initially motivated you to even start on this career path?

Debbie Peterson [00:01:28]:

I decided it was my time to serve; it was a community service, and I had things I could offer my little town. We really needed some help with our image. I've got a degree in PR, so I could do that. We also needed help with economic development. I had worked for several years on economic development in Great Britain, so I felt I had things to offer. It was my turn, and I would take my turn and serve.

Christopher [00:01:56]:

Now, I've been reading that a lot of times women are intimidated by what they believe politics to be. That didn't deter you at all. You dove right in.

Debbie Peterson [00:02:05]:

Well, I was fortunate because I was encouraged by neighbors to do this, who also were serving as planning commissioners, and one who was several actually, who had been mayors. And so that in itself didn't intimidate me. And it's a town of 13,000 people, which was about the same size as the company that I had run. Not that we had 13,000 people, but we had about the same budget to manage, and we had the same number of buildings that we were taking care of. And so I felt like I could get my arms around it, I could manage it, and actually about the same number of employees as I had had when I had my own business. So, it wasn't intimidating to me in that way at all. I didn't think of it as politics. In fact, I still say I hate politics.

Debbie Peterson [00:02:54]:

I've never been good at office politics. I just want to get stuff done, get along with people, collaborate, figure it out, have creative ideas, and brainstorm. So the whole idea of office politics, or any kind of politics, is really anathema to me. I don't like politics at all.

Debbie Peterson [00:03:12]:

I never thought of it as politics. I thought of it as my public service.

Heather [00:03:16]:

I applaud your efforts so much because, you know, what I've been noticing is that a lot of women that I chat to who have considerations to run for public office, with some of the uprisings of online and in-person attacks that many, many women are not looking to run or consider themselves for running. I think that's coupled with, you know, kind of, I would say, more common knowledge that it takes a woman 3, 4, 5, or 6 times to be asked by different people before they'll really consider seeing themselves as someone who is ready to take on that kind of responsibility. So, between those two realities, I think it potentially sets a trajectory for fewer and fewer identified persons to be thinking of running for office, which clearly is, to all of our detriment, to not have those voices at those tables. So if you have advice for women who are considering it and, you know, with the reality of what you need to live through, again, when it comes to online and offline attacks, what would your pieces of insight or advice be to those women?

Debbie Peterson [00:04:30]:

Grow a pear huevos. You know, I was fortunate in some ways because I lived in Great Britain for 20 years, and I was regularly accosted with the whole concept of the ugly American. I tried very hard not to be that ugly American. So, that helped my skin get thicker. I'm also a real estate broker, and sometimes realtors don't have the best of reputations. And so that made my skin thicker. So I think, get over it. Get over yourself.

Debbie Peterson [00:05:09]:

It's not about you. It's about serving. And, yeah, I am subject to attacks. And it is a form of abuse. It's a form of psychological abuse. And I think it's something that we need to think very carefully about because we'll work so much better together when we're civil. And that's one of the reasons we need women in office; women are better at doing that. They tend to be compatible rather than compete with each other.

Debbie Peterson [00:05:38]:

There's no way I can sugarcoat it or make it easy. It is not, but it's critical. I watched a film last night, it was called Dark Water. It was about a man who discovered Teflon was poisoning all of us. It took him 20 years, and I have to say, it seemed to me from the film that it nearly killed the guy. Sometimes, you can feel like it's nearly killing you, but the contribution you make could change the world, and it does change the world.

Debbie Peterson [00:06:10]:

So what he said at the very end of the film, which is what the original person who was struggling with the Teflon poisoning on his farm was what he had said at the beginning of the film, and that is, the government's not going to do it for you. The big companies aren't going to do it for you. In a democracy, we do it for each other, and we do it for ourselves. That's the whole point. We must participate if we want to be served and if we want to make sure that the money that the average person pays, I think it's half a million dollars worth of taxes in their lifetime, that that half a million dollars that you're investing in public services are really serving you. And the only way to do that is to pay attention and get involved.

Heather [00:06:56]:

I think what you've shared there is so important because having thick skin truly is one of the biggest pieces of the game. I could unpack that a little bit if there is something that either resonates with you or a place that you've got to where other people's perceptions of you just kind of roll off your back. One of the things that I've heard is it was under a completely different conversation, but it was the concept that she doesn't care if she's liked or loathed. She's here because she has a job to do.

Debbie Peterson [00:07:33]:

I like it. That's kind of like what parents say to their kids. You know, I'm not here to be your best friend. I'm your mom or your dad or your parent. And I think one thing that I just came to discover is the whole issue of gaslighting, where people will demean you and try to make you think nobody likes you, try to make you think that you're not doing anything right. And a couple of things. One, as I write for Psychology Today, I'm not a psychologist, so I have to quote studies, which is really helpful to me.

Debbie Peterson [00:08:10]:

I decided to tackle the form of abuse that happens to people when they're in politics, and I realized that it is gaslighting and that the psychologists are saying it's similar to bullying. It's a psychological abuse, and the way to beat it is to speak to it and call it out when you see it. Now, that's not natural for me with a degree in PR. My advice to people is to just ignore it. Just ignore it, don't repeat it. But the reality is, if people are gaslighting you, I think the solution is to speak to it and call it out when you see it. That's been a real learning curve for me.

Debbie Peterson [00:08:50]:

The other thing, and another piece of advice for folks who struggle with that, is to surround yourself with people who love you, care about you, and make you feel good about yourself. And that's your defense. Your defense is to be with good people. And I will say, in my experience, and even my very recent experience, the working together with community and getting to know people I didn't know before, regardless of party or ideas or concepts or, you know, with real diversity of opinion and nationality and ethnicity and sexuality, with that. That real diversity really makes a community, and that makes people happy.

Debbie Peterson [00:09:35]:

That's what we need to be looking for community. Women bring that. In the countries where women are in leadership or where they're more equally represented people, men and women, everybody, regardless of their sexual orientation, they all rate themselves as being happier when there's more equal representation. And I'm sure that's not just true for women. I think that's one of the reasons we've originally talked about the advantages of female leadership. It is women who are able to embrace diversity, and that's really constructive.

Christopher [00:10:15]:

It seems a bit of a conflict in that women have to get harder, sharper, meaner to get in the door, but you also need then to bring out that softer, more, like you say, collaborative side of yourself, loving side of yourself to be effectively serving your community. So you have to be one persona to get through the door and revert to another to be of use and value to the people you're trying to serve. That seems an impossible ask for a lot of women.

Debbie Peterson [00:10:53]:

I think one of the things that women do that moves them into community service is that women tend to be more volunteer-oriented and get involved in their communities. And that is a great way to get your foot in the door. I don't like that term because it's kind of a negative, but it's a way to begin to be seen and recognized and see where the needs are and how you might be able to serve. People always ask me how I should serve. And I say you should do what you like to do. Do what you do well because if you like to do what you do well, you will be of service, and you'll keep doing it. So, if you decide you're going to serve, serve in a way that gives you joy because you'll serve better. We all have different gifts. Some of us are good at speaking in meetings.

Debbie Peterson [00:11:40]:

Some of us are great at knocking on doors, and some of us are great at just showing up. They always show up. And you don't even have to say anything in a meeting—just show up. So people have different gifts, and we should use and share the gifts that God gave us.

Christopher [00:11:58]:

You were ready for the resistance; if there was any resistance to your coming into this life, obviously, with your business background, did you find resistance once you got into that chair from people around you?

Debbie Peterson [00:12:15]:

I never sensed resistance in public office. And part of it might be that I just ignore it. I don't give it the time of day. But I think the other part of it is I did see it when I was running for office. I felt for many years that a man of any ability would probably be more likely to win an election than a woman of great ability. That's a struggle, and that's difficult. So we do have to work harder. As you know, anytime you experience inequality, the people who suffer from it have to work harder to get where they would like to go.

Debbie Peterson [00:13:03]:

I think, on the other side of it, the whole basis for the United States is equal representation. That's what our whole government and democracy are all about. We all have a voice. It occurred to me the other day when I was talking to a friend who's 84, and I asked why we let this happen for all these years. We get it about equality, but we don't have equality for ourselves. Why aren't we jumping up and down and hollering about this? Because we know we'll all be better off if we have equality, and it's one of the most important values in our government. And yet, we don't make it happen. And those of us who are in the majority will have to make that effort to help make that happen.

Christopher [00:13:48]:

How do we make that change? I mean, you are fighting a system that has been run by one gender for so long. They're not going to just give away that power. What can women do individually? You're talking to one person right now, one woman. What can she do to make change happen for herself and then for her community?

Debbie Peterson [00:14:16]:

Don't give up. Realize you're in it for the long haul. And it is a long haul. Things don't change overnight. They change over decades, over centuries. And if you give up, you've given in, you've failed. So don't give up.

Debbie Peterson [00:14:36]:

Keep at it because, a lot of times, the person who succeeds is just the one who can endure the longest. Once you've had success, don't just celebrate the success and move on because it will usually take quite a lot of work afterward to make sure that you continue to have the change that you were looking for. And that's a big mistake we make. Historically, if you look over the years, the biggest mistake is that people achieve these amazing things, and then they don't follow up; they don't make sure that things are actually implemented. So I would say realize you're in. Chin up. You're in it for the long haul, so be prepared to be in it for the long haul. If you can only do a short haul, I think do what you can, but in order to succeed, you have to stay at it.

Debbie Peterson [00:15:33]:

Stay with it.

Christopher [00:15:34]:

There's this one saying, I wanted to share that. It piggybacks on just what you're saying. For anyone out there who is listening to you and is motivated by what you're saying, the saying is, you cannot be what you cannot see. And for women to see others in a position that they aspire to is absolutely necessary. And if you're that person, if you are that role model, if you are the person sitting in that chair, you're influencing so many others. So remember that.

Debbie Peterson [00:16:11]:

And I recently heard another similar idea about seeing. I saw it on a TV show, True Crime, a story or something, but I loved it because the scriptwriter had some great ideas. He said that, or she, whoever wrote the script said, had a character saying, you may see it and it's there, but turning a blind eye, looking the other way, won't make it go away. And so, same thing. If you see something that's not good, just not looking at it doesn't make it go away. So I think it's important that we continue to look at it, and we may have to be the generation that models it. And women are doing that.

Debbie Peterson [00:16:59]:

They're doing it really wonderfully. Look at Taylor Swift. Isn't she incredible? Look what that woman has done. She's an artist and a businesswoman. She's brilliant. And she didn't give up. She had a lot of things going against her.

Christopher [00:17:13]:

I would only add to look in your own backyard. There's a Taylor Swift in your backyard, people close to you who can be that model for you, whoever you are, wherever you are. Do you consider yourself a role model that way?

Debbie Peterson [00:17:27]:

Yeah, I do. I never really thought of it so much as a female role model, but of course, I would be. The other thing I see, too, is that as I take in the last five years, I've written about what I uncovered as mayor and what I did with others to make changes. As I wrote about it, I began to realize I learned so much. It's like they say, if you really want to know something, teach it. And it's absolutely true. And I've learned so much.

Debbie Peterson [00:18:03]:

Recently, I've come across some situations in my community, again, where people are really getting together to make positive, constructive change. What I realized is that a lot of the way we engage other people isn't telling them, but it's showing them by what we do and who we are. I realized that as I would write blogs and I had gotten better and better at it, then people, other people would start writing better blogs because they were seeing what I was doing. I wasn't saying, here's how you write a good blog. I was just writing good blogs, and others were picking up on what works and speaking during public comment. I don't think I ever coached anybody on how to do it. I just did it. I had written about it, and many of them have read my books, too.

Debbie Peterson [00:18:52]:

But I realized that just by doing it well, I also modeled it. I guess that's true of a lot of things. You know, the leader in an organization will set the tone for the whole organization. And so, yeah, going back to your, if you can't see it, you can't be it. Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that, but if you can see it, it sure helps you be it.

Heather [00:19:14]:

In your experience, I mean, we have people who come on our show, and they've got a story that goes alongside one of the three archetypes that we digest in our time together. So did one really hit home for you in your personal story of the Virgin, the Beauty, or the Bitch?

Debbie Peterson [00:19:32]:

Well, interesting. My mother used to always say to me that women were successful because they had to behave like men. This was the last generation before me, they were always considered bitches, and all they were doing was acting like men, but that made them bitches. So I joke about it sometimes; they would ask, how'd you get to the meeting? And I say, I brought my broom. I rode my broom in, you know, Bitch, Witch, whatever.

Debbie Peterson [00:20:03]:

And I think that's another side of it, too. You have to learn to laugh at it. Most of the time now, when people are being outrageous, rude, inconsiderate, or whatever, I've learned to laugh at it. Just shake my head and laugh at it.

Heather [00:20:19]:

That's very helpful because I think if you can't find humor in the day-to-day, then it can be all-consuming. So I think it's a good way to take the edge off of some of the pressures that continue to face us, whether for women or any gender. But honestly, what you've had to say about women entering into politics or even leadership, it does mean a great deal to not only see other women who have paved the way but then to feel empowered to know that they're bringing to the table. As you said, through a different access point. And if your access point is some sort of volunteerism, that you get your feet wet in working with other people and you can rise into crafting what your sense of purpose or contribution is, that's an excellent way for a lot of people to find a deeper pulse of what it means to be part of something bigger than themselves.

Debbie Peterson [00:21:08]:

Yeah, I agree with you on that. And it kind of moves to the other question that you had mentioned when you talked to me before the show, which was, what is your definition of feminine? I would say I really struggled with that one because I don't know. I never thought about it. I don't think I ever thought. How do I define feminine? Define it as ladylike. It's fine to be professional. When I see women in leadership, I want to see them be professional, and I want to see them own their power, but I want to see them, I want to encourage them to do what they do the way that they do it. And by that, I don't mean, you know, simpering and being wishy-washy and giving in to your every emotion, or I think that's not constructive for men or women or for anyone.

Debbie Peterson [00:22:05]:

But I really like to see people be who they are, do what they do, and do it as professionally and as well as they possibly can. And so I think for me, being, talking about being feminine, we've moved from the pitch where we have to behave like men to get ahead. We can now do what we do because women do it differently. And I think I would say to women, look at Taylor Swift. She did it her way. So do it your way. Do what you do the way that you do it.

Debbie Peterson [00:22:46]:

And that's the most constructive way you can serve because that's all you've got. What else do you have besides who you are, and how do you do it? That's your gift to share.

Christopher [00:22:56]:

So people want to read your books, get in touch, or follow you. Tell us how best to do that.

Debbie Peterson [00:23:07]:

I'm transitioning in and out of doing some authoring and then doing some more work again with my local government. I have a website, mayordebbie.com, that has a lot of information. I have books on how to get involved in local government and why it's important. One of them is more of a horror story called The Happiest Corruption, Sleaze, Lies and Suicide in a California Beach Town, which is what happened and what I worked with as mayor and while in local government. But I also have some that tell you how to do it, like City Council 101. And those are all available on Amazon. I also wrote The Leadership Secrets of Taylor Swift, which talks about gender.

Debbie Peterson [00:23:53]:

But I'm also really concerned about young people. I want young people in public office. I'm tired of these old guys, old white guys, and even old white girls. I'm sick of it. I want to see young people. I want that fresh point of view. So I think Amazon.com Integrity 101 is the series by Debbie Peterson, or mayordevi.com are resources.

Christopher [00:24:16]:

Fantastic. Fantastic. I'm so happy that you have open arms for the younger generation as well and are not just focused on our peers. Thank you for offering them a way forward.

Heather [00:24:36]:

And talking about Taylor Swift the way that you do, I mean, so impressed with so many aspects of who she is, but also how she's changed the game when it comes to owning her own music. I mean, there are many of these major music conglomerates that are now looking to reshape laws so that what she's done can't be done again. But I know that she's just gonna be a force that won't allow for that to happen and for more artists to own their work. That in and of itself is a game changer. And what can it mean to women to see someone taking that on, and what can they bring to their own lives from seeing that? I think that she's really changed the game in so many ways.

Debbie Peterson [00:25:20]:

I love it because women don't know how to play the game, and we've never been a part of the game, as it were. So when women go in, they just do what they think is the best way to do it. They just seek to collaborate as a rule, not all women, but as a rule, as a gender, and they seek to collaborate and figure it all out. They can't join the old boys club because they never have been, and maybe they never will. So they've got to find another way. I think it's in finding that other way that we really come up with good solutions.

Christopher [00:26:03]:

It's a new fork in the old road. A new fork that people can follow. We want to thank you for taking the time to indulge us in learning a lot about what it takes and what it could take for women to go into an area that for so long they weren't welcome. Women like you have broken down those doors, and we appreciate you taking the time to share your experience with us.

Debbie Peterson [00:26:54]:

Well, thank you for giving me a voice here. I appreciate it.

Heather [00:26:58]:

It really has been wonderful to have you, everything from how you talk about this topic to just your conviction. It's really a pleasure to hear directly from you. So thank you for your time..

Debbie Peterson [00:27:09]:

Thank you. And I loved listening to your podcasts as well. So keep up the great, great work. Thank you.

Christopher [00:27:16]:

Thank you. Thank you so much. And you have been listening to...

Heather [00:27:21]:

The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch.

Christopher [00:27:25]:

Find us, like us, share us, bring your friends, and let's have a party. Come on back to become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com, like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Definitely Different - like you. Until next time, thanks for listening.