VBB 246: Laurin Mayeno — This Is Blatant Discrimination Under The Guise Of Concern For Children!

Virgin Beauty Bitch Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.

Let's talk, shall we

Christopher

00:22 - 01:02

June is officially pride, and no doubt celebrations will follow. But did you know that since January of this year, 2023, according to the American Civil Liberties Union data, at least 417, I repeat that number, 417 anti-L G B T Q bills have been introduced in state legislatures, which impact the lives of nearly 2 million plus transgender people, children, parents, including mothers like our guest, Laurin Mayeno. Welcome, Lauren, to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Laurin

 01:03 - 01:05

Thank you. Excited to be here.

Christopher

 01:05 - 01:24

Thank you for being here with us. Now, Lauren, you have a child, Danny, but when your child was still very young, he surprised you, or they surprised you. Can you tell us the story of your child and how they challenged one of your most fundamental beliefs

Laurin

 01:25 - 02:33

Yes, so I had my child back in the 1980s, and that was before there were words that were being popularized, like non-binary, and they, them pronouns. My child came into the world under some pretty unique circumstances. I had recently been widowed, and I was a single mom. I very much wanted to raise a child that the father Wilfredo would've been proud of. I was also very aware that oftentimes parents project things onto their children, and sometimes we sort of immortalize people who have passed in a, in a certain way, kind of put them up on a pedestal. And I didn't wanna do that to my child. I didn't wanna put my child into a situation of, you know, you have to follow in your father's footsteps. You have to be like this person or anything.

Laurin

 02:34 - 04:00

So, while I was pregnant, I wrote this letter to my child. I just said, you know, I am going to let you be who you are. I did that without knowing what that actually meant. So then my child, who I assumed was a boy because that's typically what happens when children are born; they are assigned a gender, and my child was assigned the gender boy. But he started behaving in ways that I thought were more feminine.  He loved playing with little ponies and unicorns and princesses and all that kind of stuff. Eventually, he ends up wanting to be a princess for Halloween. I had to challenge myself.  Am I going to try to force my child to act like a boy, or am I gonna allow my child to be who they are? There were several moments like that. And I just ended up deciding to support my child. Through that, it became clearer what I really believed. It opened my world to a whole different set of learning and ideas about gender that I didn't realize I held.

Christopher

04:01 - 04:12

However, unlike most parents, you went a step further in supporting your child. You wrote a book to encapsulate that experience. Tell us about that book. 

Laurin

04:13 - 05:11

So, I wrote the book after being really actively involved with families of L G B T Q Children for several years. One of the things that happened to me during my childhood is I am mixed race, and I saw no books about mixed-race children when I was growing up. And so I understood what it was like.  I first found a book about mixed-race people when I was in my thirties, and I knew how empowering that was. I wanted children like mine to have a book about themselves.  I had been doing a lot of work in the Latina community, and there was a call for, you know, we don't just need to educate parents, we need to educate children as well.  So, I wrote the book based on a true story and made it a bilingual book.

Christopher

05:11 - 05:13

Give us the name and tell us what that story was about.

Laurin

05:14 - 05:57

So the book is called One of a Kind Like Me. I actually brought a copy just in case we're actually doing visuals here, One Of A Kind Like Me, Uni Kokomo. It's about a little child named Danny who wants to be a princess in the school parade. It's about that journey of how am I gonna get that princess dress. It's not about bullying; it's not let's talk about being different. It's just about celebrating this child for who they are and their creativity and determination.

Christopher

05:57 - 06:01

And you got the book into the school system, and that's where the fun began.

Laurin

06:02 - 07:22

Yeah. So, the book has actually been embraced by many, many different schools. I just spoke last month to a school that reads it every year, and all the kids in the school know about the book. That was so exciting. Somehow, it made its way into a school in North Carolina. I didn't even know that the book was making its way out there, but it did. It was a college student who brought it into the school as a part of a program to teach literacy in schools. The way I found out about it was there was a front page cover story about it in the local newspaper, and somebody tweeted about it.  That's how I found out that this was actually happening.  I also found out that the controversy was that parents were afraid because they thought that this book about a little boy who wanted to be a princess for Halloween was gonna confuse children and was age-inappropriate. The school board was just so shocked that they had allowed this to happen. They apologized to the parents and basically ended up banning the book.

Heather

07:23 - 08:34

I just wanna pour my heart out to you. There's so much coming out worldwide and in the USA around books being banned and for all of the kinds of the far-right wing rhetoric around what is their reasoning behind doing so when really it's just such a blatant attack on what you've already brought up earlier in this discussion, which is how do we support our children in being truly who they are. That's not their confusion; it's not a parent introducing something that is meant to confuse other children. That's a parent stepping up to support your child and who they really are, who their authentic self really is. And then also being able to showcase that in a way that creates safety and support for kids that perhaps don't have parents who are in a position to, or are under a rhetoric that, that they don't feel the need to support them in that way.

Heather

08:34 - 09:21

So, you know, the amount of clamping down on how I see it as freedom of speech or freedom to share different ideas is truly alarming. And it's just abhorrent to me that this is the direction that people have decided to go.  It fuels me to ask how we continue to stand up for parents in your shoes and for not allowing the banning of books to happen. Could you comment on your thought process around how we can kind of rise up to these extremely challenging circumstances in which we find ourselves in?

Laurin

 09:22 - 10:45

Thanks for that question. One thing I wanna just back up and say is that children don't have a lot of hangups about these kinds of conversations. For the most part, when I go into schools, and I've gone into many schools, children are open to these conversations in many places. It's adults' projections onto children. That's the problem, right? We also know that the majority of people don't support this. It is a very vocal minority, and it's a substantial minority, and it's a worldwide movement that is very, very well funded and very intentionally orchestrated. We know these things, and one of the challenges is that they are trying to control the narrative. They are trying to make us believe that books like these are actually threatening their children. The main challenges to books are not only L G B T books but books about people of color, books about black and Indigenous people, and books that talk about racism. And the argument is that these books harm our children, right

Laurin

  10:47 - 11:55

Who are our children? That is one question, right? For example, L G B T children face so many threats if they, as you said, family acceptance is a big issue. If your family does not accept you and you're not safe because your family doesn't support you for who you are, who are you gonna go to for that safety? Even though I supported my child, they didn't feel safe in school, so they went to the library for lunch. Can you imagine going to the library and there are no books about you? There is no longer a safe place for you either. So, I think part of it is really like understanding why this is so critical and what the impact is. And the impact is like silencing people. And it's a long history of marginalizing authors of color, black, indigenous people of color authors.

Laurin

11:55 - 12:53

There's a long history of marginalizing woman authors. There's a long history of marginalizing L G B T Q authors; this is part of that, but then it's like stepping up on steroids. I think there's this very vocal majority that needs to become more vocal. That's really what it is because the majority actually supports this but are not being vocal. This is why the not-very vocal majority needs to go out and buy books from authors who are banned and read those books to their children. Parents or students need to speak up in the schools and not let those voices of opposition be the only voices that are being heard just because they're very loud and vocal and sometimes very intimidating, too. Those are just a couple of things.

Christopher

12:54 - 13:23

I remember you talking about when you first were confronted with this, facing parents on the other side and having to defend your stance like that is a real deep fear for a lot of parents having to face a community that they think is going to be hostile towards them. How did you get over that fear?

Laurin

13:26 - 14:31

I can't say I ever completely got over it.  I did write a piece that got published in more mainstream media, and one of the mainstream media outlets had a comment section, and there were over 300 comments, and a lot of them were really nasty, like really nasty, saying what a bad mother I was and a lot of really horrible things. I could not; I couldn't read it. I had my husband read the comments because I couldn't read it because it just hurt me too much to read that kind of stuff. And so I can't say that I'm over it and like, Hey, yeah, bring it on. But I can say that I understand, and I have just a different way of looking at things because I have been really educated and supported by people in the L G B T Q community.

Laurin

14:33 - 15:34

One of the things that I've been educated about is this whole idea that there's only two genders and that, you know, if you're this gender, you're supposed to act this way. And if you're this other gender, you're supposed to act this other way. And this is how we're supposed to raise our children. If you don't raise your children that way, then you're a bad parent. I understand how far from reality that really is. Now I understand that there are an infinite number of genders, there are an infinite number of identities and that, we, that's not a real world that we live in. It's kind of like the matrix where somebody created this narrative about the world, and we agree to live by this narrative. Not everybody, obviously, agrees to live by this narrative, which has nothing to do with reality.

Laurin

15:34 - 16:34

And so, for me, just like on your show, you're trying to break down stereotypes that are harmful to women. It's that same system that imposes those harmful stereotypes that really harm all of us. And the more we start to realize that those stereotypes, those sort of social expectations that get pushed on us, they hurt everybody. They don't allow us to be who we are. They cause more violence. They cause more marginalization; they cause more suicide. The more we realize that the more I think, and we can see another way like we can see another way of being like, I don't have to be that way. I can actually be who I am. It doesn't have to fit into this box of what it means to be a woman or a man or anything else. Right. Did I answer your question?

Heather

16:35 - 17:54

It's so well said. It's so freeing to think about how much more we can be when we're not trying to fit ourselves into the box of, you know, x, y, or z of what society has said is the right definition for you. Even in quotations as well, and you know, when I hear about like the access points that have helped fuel you, you know, to continue to, you know, keep, keep moving forward and to keep advocating, you know, support from the community, reaching out to people who may be in a similar circumstance to you to make sure they feel that they're not alone in this fight. And really calling out the vast majority of us who feel that children deserve to be their authentic selves is just so important. And something that I recently saw online just in the community as well is that there's been such a huge focus around what I claim as like this, as you've said, the small, very vocal, usually aggressive minority that's trying to paint this picture.

Heather

  17:55 - 18:43

One of the elements or tactics that they seem to employ also is how, at such a young age, is how anyone can know if their assigned sex at birth doesn't match. Who they feel and know that they are from the inside out. One of the pieces that I saw coming out of the community, the L G B T Q  community, is that you don't have to know; you don't have to have the right answer. You know, like you can go into it saying, at this point in my life, this is the way that I wanna express myself. And it doesn't mean you must continue without your entire life. Like to really open up the conversation to say it's okay to explore the ways that you present your gender.

Laurin

18:44 - 19:27

And that's it; it doesn't have to be definitive on either side so that it doesn't put our young people with their backs against the wall to get it right. You know, when they're very young, whatever getting it right means, but to allow them to as a kid, you just wanna be playful and you wanna explore. So, like, allow them that space to be able to do that, which, you know, I just, I really appreciated reading that article because it, to me, even as an adult who wants to support younger people who are, who are in the community, it created a lot of space for things to not feel as rigid as what our society wants to make things out to be.

Laurin

19:27 - 20:39

Well, one of the things about this binary sort of either or way of looking at gender is that sometimes there's this feeling like, okay, well, if you're not the gender you are assigned at birth, then you must be the other gender. But it's still very either or like binary, right? And there's some history of people sort of being, being like, well, you're either this or this, and if you're this, not this, then this is how you are supposed to be. And if we let go of this sort of binary or way of thinking about gender, there is a lot more openness to be many different ways, right? And not just one or the other. And there are some kids, many kids who know from a very early age, like, I am not the gender everyone's telling me I am. And they know that. And it's important to listen to them. It's just important to know too that everybody's an individual and some people's journeys are very, you know, more fluid than others. And it's important to allow for that fluidity.

Heather

20:39 - 21:19

On that note, especially given your experience and not looking to maintain the rigidness of gender or gender expression, but we like to ask this to our guests because it's a word and a term or an energy or a piece of the gender spectrum that is so undervalued or unlike, you know, in worst case scenarios, abused, undervalued in ourselves. Christopher and I believe that we have feminine and masculine and all in between within us, so we love to ask our guests: What does feminine mean to you?

Laurin

  21:20 - 22:24

Yeah. That's a hard question for me because I think I grew up feeling like feminine was frilly and soft and sort of all the stereotypes, and I never felt particularly feminine cuz I'm not particularly frilly or soft. So, it's always been hard for me to really identify with that kind of idea. So, I have tried to redefine it. I would say the words that come to mind for me are strong, fierce, grounded in love, in spirit, and also resourceful and creative. Like being able to take what you have and do what you can to make a difference with whatever that is. Those are just some things that come up for me.

Heather

22:24 - 23:28

That really just hits me in the heart. And I totally agree that this antiquated sense of frilly and flowery and all of those things that have described the feminine for so long or modest just doesn't fit. And I just agree so much with what you've said about being resourceful and grounded in love. Those just feel so much more, at least for me, more authentic to what the feminine as an energy is. And I think that the beauty of asking this question on our show is that it's so different for every single person. So many people on this show have articulated just how much former, you know, patriarchal definitions of this have been so damaging. To honor that energy in us, thank you for your words on it.

Laurin

23:29 - 23:32

Oh, thank you for the question. Appreciate it.

Christopher

23:32 - 23:40

I also don't want to alienate women who believe in the frilly and the soft as well.

Laurin

23:40 - 23:41

Definitely.

Christopher

23:41 - 24:11

It is the gamut, and we want to be able to expand the direction, view, and landscape to include much more than they have in the past without eliminating the past. Because for some people, that is true as well. So, thank you for sharing that and for giving a different angle on that phrase. We really appreciate that.

Laurin

24:11 - 24:23

Thank you for that. I also want to mention that it's not just women who can embrace femininity as frilly or softness if that's what they're into.

Speaker 2

24:23 - 24:35

Absolutely. Now, your book, where can people get their hands, their eyes on what you've written?

Speaker 3

24:36 - 25:07

Well, I am an avid supporter of independent bookstores, and even if your bookstore, your local bookstore, isn't carrying it, you can ask them to order a copy for you, and they can get it for you. You can also go to bookshop.org, which is a website that supports independent bookstores, and you can order it there. 

Christopher

25:08 - 25:18

Love that. And have you written since? Have you been writing other things that people can get into as well?

Laurin

25:19 - 25:59

I haven't written anything, I haven't published any other children's books, but I do write a lot of things that are published in different places like Huffington Post. There's also a video that covers some of my life story.  That was done in the New York Times back in 2018. It's called A Mother's Promise, and it is beautifully animated. I have a chapter that's coming out soon in a book called Intellectual Gems.

Christopher

25:59 - 26:15

Thank you. We want to support your work as much as we can. We appreciate your message, and we appreciate what it is you stand for, and believe in and fight for. So, that's why we ask; we wanna support you as much as we can.

Laurin

26:15 - 26:59

Thank you. Can I mention a couple of other things real quick? I do go out into schools and read books to children and have conversations with them about things like gender stereotypes. So check me out on my website. My book website is oneofakindlikeme.com. Also, there are a couple of authors that I wanna just shout out to because their books are also being impactful. There's Maya Gonzalez at Reflection Press, there's Zeta Elliot, and there's Alex Geno. And these are some authors that I personally know and really wanna support.

Christopher

26:59 - 27:12

Fabulous, thank you. It's been a true joy getting to pick your brain from the experiences that you've had and the beliefs that you have fostered. We really appreciate you sharing those with us.

Laurin

27:13 - 27:16

Thank you. Really appreciate having this conversation with you as well.

Heather

  27:17 - 27:40

It's so nice to meet you, Laurin. Thank you for all you do in going to schools, being a voice to these children, and helping parents along their journey as well. It's just been such a joy to chat with you, and you know, all the power to you with what you're doing, even when times get hard. So, I just want to thank you for what you contribute.

Laurin

  27:41 - 27:42

Thank you so much. Take good care.

Christopher

  27:44 - 27:45

And you've been listening too.

Heather

  27:46 - 27:46

The virgin,

Christopher

  27:46 - 27:47

The beauty

Heather

  27:48 - 27:48

And the bitch.

Christopher

  27:49 - 27:53

It's pride. Come back. We have more for you.